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[Fniff]

I tried running this in Windows 7, and it didn't work. Is this a common issue?

[beorn080]

some googling suggests that it requires AM cells to power it, otherwise it will not have enough juice to work.

My gut feeling is that it is in actuality just a play on it's own name, and it literally does exactly what it says.

I think your gut may be right. Spawned one with an antimatter cell, did nothign to a waydroid or a dragonfly.

[unormal]

I tried running this in Windows 7, and it didn't work. Is this a common issue?

Should work fine on Windows 7. Make sure you've got the .NET 2.0 redistributes installed if you're trying the public version (3.5/4.0 if you've got the private beta): http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en

[Fniff]

That doesn't seem to work either. Nevermind. :S

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I swear I've used a nullray pistol before..

[beorn080]

The only thing I can think of, at this point, is that it removes self illumination levels from people with Light Manip. Either that or it has something to do with enemy cooldown rates.

[Angle]

oh, I think I see - you mean you might get advanced recipes? Like scoped/lacquered/whatever stuff?

[beorn080]

oh, I think I see - you mean you might get advanced recipes? Like scoped/lacquered/whatever stuff?

Yes. If you keep crafting gear, each time it has a chance to have the bonuses.

[Angle]

It'd be cool it the bonuses were recipes in and off themselves that you could add to other items. So with enough skill or whatever, you could go an make yourself a super tricked out counterweighted willowy electrified crysteel longsword, or whatever. Maybe make the costs go up exponentially as you add more features? Or have the features come with built in drawbacks. Or something.

[Angle]

Also: Don't let people use offensive mutations on themselves. I just died to my own sunder mind, cause I hit the wrong key. Not cool, damnit.

[BigD145]

It's best to not punch yourself. That hurts.

[Aquillion]

Once you get full-disassemble, since every time you disassemble something you get a percentage chance to reverse engineer, you can just breakdown and rebuild an item over and over again to (eventually) guarantee a blueprint from reverse engineer. Generally we wanted to disincentivize things that weren't much fun, and this didn't seem like much fun. Though there are obviously a ton of other ways to approach it. This is just why things are the way they are at the moment.

I still don't understand the exploit here.

If you don't have the blueprint already, you can't rebuild the item, right?

And if you do have the blueprint, there's no point in chain building and unbuilding it to apply Reverse Engineer, because...  you already have the blueprint.  The only things you can chain rebuild are things you already know how to build.

In any case I would like to ask that deconstructing things you built be at least added as an option in the config menu in the next patch.  Even if it worked, the exploit you're describing seems extremely minor in impact to me, while the inability to deconstruct stuff you built basically killed the fun of playing a tinker for me -- I stopped playing them entirely once I found out, since I'd been picturing myself being able to whip up whatever I need and then deconstructing it when no longer necessary.  Without the ability to deconstruct your creations (and, therefore, without the ability to build what you want on the fly without constantly hemorrhaging bits), I feel that tinkering is mostly a waste of time -- you're better off just trying to buy what you want directly rather than building it yourself.  I don't think it's worth crippling the core functionality of tinkering for the sake of killing a minor exploit.

I mean...  I think a much better alternative, if the issue is Reverse Engineer + Full Disassemble, would be to just make Reverse Engineer work 100% of the time when you have both Reverse Engineer and Full Disassemble.  Why not?  It requires an extremely dedicated character to get to that point, with a bunch of stat points sunk into Intelligence, and truthfully I feel tinkers are underpowered already.  Most items you only need one of, so who cares if you get the recipe?  For the others...  the alternative is to buy a data disk, which wastes a bunch of money (which could have been spent to just buy the item itself), but conversely is really just a matter of grinding and lugging stuff to sell back via recoilers.

I just really really really don't think forbidding the disassembling of stuff you've built is a good idea.  It makes zero logical sense and isn't indicated as a rule anywhere in the game, even though I'd consider it a defining limitation for tinkers that alters the entire way they play in an unfun manner (the first time I saw it I assumed it was a bug, and it continues to look and feel like a bug to me even now that I know it's intentional).

If nothing else, look at it like this:  Even if there is an exploit related to chain-deconstructing, it's only going to ruin tinkering for the few people who discover it, decide to exploit it, and don't enjoy exploiting it.  Removing the ability to deconstruct items you built cripples tinkering for everyone -- I seriously think that it's something that every single person who plays tinkers long enough runs into in an unpleasant manner.  That just doesn't make any sense as a solution; by removing the ability to deconstruct stuff you made, you've taken a minor problem with tinkering, one that only affected a few people, and turned it into a major problem with tinkering, one that affects everyone.

(Though I'll repeat, unless you're misstated it or I'm misunderstanding something, I think the exploit you're describing just isn't there -- you can't rebuild stuff unless you already have the blueprint, in which case you don't need to use Reverse Engineer.)

[Angle]

The point isn't getting the schematic, its that guilding things has a chance to give you a special Item - a scoped, lacquered, whatever. If you can unbuild and rebuild, you can repeat until you get precisely what you want. I think that there should just be recipes to scope things, instead of a random chance.

[unormal]

Yeah; no question that it's a suboptimal solution that could use another look.

[beorn080]

You can already get infinite bits pretty easily with Metamorphisis and Temporal Fugue, but that's expensive and not really all that powerful, compared to picking combat mutations instead.