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[Virex]

Absence of proof isn't proof of absence. Why, if one assertion is refuted (can we consider it refuted if there is still an unanswered reply standing?) should we automatically jump to the idea that everyone's equal? Why would that be the baseline?

[Urist is dead tome]

I don't know about you but I believe that G-d created both mean and women equal.

Absence of proof isn't proof of absence. Why, if one assertion is refuted (can we consider it refuted if there is still an unanswered reply standing?) should we automatically jump to the idea that everyone's equal? Why would that be the baseline?

By saying they aren't equal you are attempting to destroy my religion. Now ya got a lawsuit.

[Virex]

If it comes down to belief, then I don't think we're going to go anywhere fast. May I redirect our little discussion to the Atheism thread?

[Urist is dead tome]

Fine. Post and I'll get an Email.

[Virex]

Might take a while, as I am about to fall asleep in my chair (good thing the shop doesn't open till 12 tomorrow) 

[Grakelin]

After a quick cursory glance at some of the posts here, I have come to a conclusion: The main contributors here need to go read some books. Even the little things, like implying that the author of an article in Qatar Living is writing from an Israeli viewpoint (!!!).

Why is there a thread on our forum where two people are trying to prove to the other how much better one gender is? At first glance, it looks like breadbocks is trying to support the 'equal' theory, but as we look at some of his comments, we see that he is 'refuting' Virex's claims by giving bias to men ("Men just suck it up and eat it, whereas women jump at anything disgusting", "women are gossipers"). Stop being dumb.

As to the original topic of this thread: Yeah, nothing smart is really being said. Sorry guys, but it's true. Even things as innocent as "I don't think Feminism matters anymore because it's not socially accepted to be sexist" are dangerously tinged with ignorance. We already know that women are making 75% of what men are making, for the same work. People are still having civil rights issues based on their genders.

Feminism is not about empowering women over men. It is about defending political, economic, and social rights; and defending equal opportunities for women. Some people argue that gender, like sex, are social constructions that harm all people; feminism thus seeks to liberate men as well as women. Feminists, persons practicing feminism, can be persons of either sex.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's time you all stop posting in this behemoth of a thread and do some real research. I defy any one of you to post "Feminism is stupid and outdated and hypocrticial" when you have the knowledge that it is about equality at your fingertips.

Conventional Feminists do not want you hitting men any more than they want you hitting women. It's about equality, giving equal opportunities to everybody. Nobody is trying to say "Hey, let's make everything all better in our life time", because we all know that's impossible. Instead, Feminists are working, bit by bit, to make the world a better place for everybody.


Now, what everybody here seems to think Feminism is is actually called Separtist Feminism. I can totally dig why you wouldn't like these guys, seeing as how they are as much a hate group as the KKK or the Westboro Church. But Separatist Feminism is different than other forms of Feminism. Remember that. No matter what gender you are, Feminism is on your side.


Now, realizing that people gloss over my posts, continue debating how much better one gender is, or how Feminism is pointless.


(Also, I think the OP is a troll for posting this thread in the first place. If you really wanted to discuss it, you would have laid out your views in the first post. You just want to fight.)

[Urist is dead tome]

I ain't a troll. I wanted to hear everyone's opinions.

"(Also, I think the OP is a troll for posting this thread in the first place. If you really wanted to discuss it, you would have laid out your views in the first post. You just want to fight.)"

If you want my views. I believe that any attempts at modern feminism are stupid because it would just cause people to recoil from it. I believe that things that start for equality quickly degenerate into hate. And that's the story of feminism as told by ol' Urist.

[Leafsnail]

Just to let you know, Grakelin, that post is awesome.  I pretty much completely agree.

[Grakelin]

If you want my views. I believe that any attempts at modern feminism are stupid because it would just cause people to recoil from it. I believe that things that start for equality quickly degenerate into hate. And that's the story of feminism as told by ol' Urist.

I even posted links. No excuse.

[Urist is dead tome]

You're meaning is unclear.

[Grakelin]

Your inability to research terms is clear.

[Urist is dead tome]

You seem to be mad for little to no reason.

[SalmonGod]

Also agree with everything Grakelin.  All of my comments have been about manifestations or side-effects of things that bother me that are typically labeled or associated with feminism, even if incorrectly.  If that's considered off-topic, then I guess it's because I have little to add to the subject of true feminism.  I treat all people as equal to the best of my ability and have never, even as a small child, thought that it should be any other way.  And I was picked on.  A lot.

As for the actual issue of equality, I think it's very subjective.  You can't point to quantifiable differences between people and tie them to the concept of equality.  Those quantifiable differences only have any bearing on the subject because you personally see them as having intrinsic value, but different people value different things.  One person can see two people as unequal because they differ on one quantifiable value.  Another person might not even recognize the existence of that value and consider those people equal.

I think the reason people get so up in arms when someone brings up those differences is not as much in disagreeance with the notion of those differences (though that is there to some extent), so much as disagreement with the implications of labeling people as unequal.  People logically expect recognition of people as unequal as leading to the acceptance of unequal treatment.  Specify that you still believe people deserve to be treated as equals and that you're speaking strictly from academic curiousity, and I think people will have a lot less trouble with it.

[breadbocks]

Graken your post is epic.

First, I lol'd at the Qatar Isreal thing. I was comparing the driver screw ups to Isreali drivers.

They have seriously bad drivers.

Like... even they know it.

As for my bias towards men, I suppose it is there. I mean the best. That's what counts, right? I guess if I was a girl I'd be subconsciously biased towards it. More to work on, I guess.

[Grakelin]

I'm of the postmodern school of thought that believes that genders are socially constructed. If you dress up a male baby in pink, nobody will know that it's a male, and people will treat it differently. So I actually do think there are differences between the male and female gender, but it's something we've constructed over our lifetimes, and does not have anything to do with how fast the sperm cells were.