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Author Topic: Advanced weapons systems.  (Read 14866 times)

Funk

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2011, 08:20:46 am »

haveing a more complex weapon will not make combat any more complex than it is now.
how hard can it get to hit the goblin with the sharp bit?

Advanced Weapons should be some thing that the player can ignore, sword is a sword no matter how many little variations it has from the last one.

i think being able to tell who made sword x by just it variation and decoration.
your fort could rise to fame based on how good it weapons where.
and have cheap nockoff ruining your good name (yes that happen back then, see Ulfbehrt-Swords in the Viking age)
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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knutor

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #91 on: December 03, 2011, 12:06:51 am »

haveing a more complex weapon will not make combat any more complex than it is now.
how hard can it get to hit the goblin with the sharp bit?

Advanced Weapons should be some thing that the player can ignore, sword is a sword no matter how many little variations it has from the last one.

i think being able to tell who made sword x by just it variation and decoration.
your fort could rise to fame based on how good it weapons where.
and have cheap nockoff ruining your good name (yes that happen back then, see Ulfbehrt-Swords in the Viking age)

I disagree.  Advanced combat calculations rely on simplistic weapon designs.  Its not a matter of how hard it is to hit, or to miss.  Its a matter of having many possible outcomes if it does hit or miss.  Its a matter of having a streamlined dynamic that isn't going to lag things down.  Its a matter of a fair and balanced outcome which satisfies the most stubborn dwarf. 

When more subcomponents are installed into a crafting system, its an inevitability that various numbers of erroneous quality and material strings will conflict directly with combat calculations, overall damage, creating more entangled confusion, and less logic flow.  Just look at history from another game.  The multiple powerhandlers that were introduced into the scout blasters schematic in Star Wars as a result of a weaponsmithing patch.  Crafters got permabanned as a result of simply following the games possibilities, sticking in more than one powerhandler.  Wasn't that the devs fault and not the gamers fault?  One shot kills occured as a result of loading up powerhandlers.  Paying customers got BANNED for it by Sony. 

History shows, this is bad.  Not without a complete overhaul of every piece of armor and skill, is it to be done.  Doing this lightly would throw a monkey wrench in places they weren't ever meant to be thrown.  I'd back your suggestion if it were to solely add a curved sword, a bastard sword, a rapier, a whatever, in complete form, but not in interchangeable bits and pieces.  Hell, too many fluff items already exist.  Next thing ya know people will be asking for kazoos, drums, pixie sticks, etc..  I'm not saying this is a fluff item, but it falls in there with them, if its not a combat variable.  *thumbs down* 

The legendary artifacts already behave similarly to as you mention.  Why water them down, with mastercraft doing the same, or similar effect?  A crafter is renowned for making an artifact, its name goes on the dwarf description.  Legends show it coming from the civilization that crafter resided in, doesn't it?  Not precisely sure there; I mainly play Fortress mode.
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Funk

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2011, 02:27:45 pm »

i can see your point in that it may make for confusion, but all im saying is that a variation will just give the weapon a diffent attack.

combat will not be much more complex than it is now, only some weapons will have diffent attacks and flavor text.
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

Unofficial slogan of Bay 12 Games.  

Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG

knutor

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2011, 04:09:45 am »

i can see your point in that it may make for confusion, but all im saying is that a variation will just give the weapon a diffent attack.

combat will not be much more complex than it is now, only some weapons will have diffent attacks and flavor text.

I'm all for variety.  *thumbs up* 

This perks my desire to see the actual rolls from combat.  Just how close a near miss was that dodge, or was it way WAY off the mark.  Seeing the text alone leaves a lot to be desired.

I guess the desire to see the die rolls, is just the mudder in me.  Ever mud?  I had a remorted fighter/thief on a merc/diku mud based at TX Univ, while I was in college in PA.  It was fun Telneting down there and doing that. 

Man I wish that grad student had never showed me mudding, I might be a doctor, if he hadn't.  LOL!  People still mud?

Sincerely,
Knutor
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

Starver

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2011, 01:30:16 am »

As a datum-point, I don't MUD right now, but only because it's so addictive and I'm not letting myself do so.  (And life, thankfully, has a few other distractions). 
Spoiler: Waffle (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: More waffle (click to show/hide)

Anyway, regarding the recent discussion, I foresee more complex weapons as being totally procedurally-based.  A limited number of sub-components connected in a limited (but exponentially large) number of ways, but only 'invoked' by a dwarf (one of the agents of the player's will, yes, but not under the control of the player's will, or even deliberately invoked by command) in a mood-like way.  An axe-head connected by a chain to the end of a long pole?  Could arise.  Its disadvantages (flexible chain reduces chance of "sharp" hit by axe-head and increases the chance of a 'slap' by the axe-side, for blunt, and being at the end of the pole reduces the speed of deployment in the first place) comes from each component used, much as the advantages (pole gives distance, chain gives entanglement).  Whereas a stave-like component becomes equipped with a spear-head at one end and a mace-head at the other, then a choice of sharp or blunt attack is reflected in the weapon attack bonuses/chances (inexperience means 50/50 deployment, regardless of enemy, but after some gained experience with the weapon it is ensured that the chance effect lowers in favour of whatever is the better attack for a given opponent (and/or for the given attack mode the enemy is attacked where most handily vulnerable), but it has not so much reach as a true spear, nor quite the same velocity as a true mace).

If that makes sense.

So no making a blaster with way too many powerpacks.  But also the possibility that the signature fortress weapon that has arisen is actually less useful than the 'standard' arms.  (Although there should be good bonuses, still, when expertise arises.)  Arguably, inexperienced use of weapons (some?/all?/just the novel ones?) should bring with it a chance of self-injury.  Perhaps as a function of the handle/components (nunchuk-like weapon with sharp blades on the ends, anyone? :) ).
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drilltooth

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2011, 03:33:31 am »

even just breaking weapons out into a 2-peice "head" and "handle" could make thing more itneresting.  For example, assume you have "chopping" "slash/peirce blade" and "thumper" head,s and "hand-sized" "arm's length" and "10-foot pole" handles. assume that normally, you'ld attach the sharp blade to either a short(sword), or pole (spear) handle, and the mid-length would have the others(axe, mace/hammer [depending on proportionate mass of head/handle]) although, moods could break this rule, (why not attach a hammer head to a sword hilt?)
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Starver

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2011, 03:38:57 am »

I'm counting on it... :)
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Funk

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Re: Advanced weapons systems.
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2011, 06:43:31 am »

well it was done before,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and hidden weapons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

here is planepacked the weapon
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

Unofficial slogan of Bay 12 Games.  

Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG
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