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[madciol]

there is no real gain in fixing this throwaway code which was added as a limited prototype in the first place.

Fitst: old bugs may and will have influence on other parts of game, making harder to create these parts, and in future harder to rewrite current code. Workarounds and interdependencies (when one feature depends on buggy behaviour of another feature) are real pain in the ass.
Second: for some time, Toady is focused more on adding new features, not rewriting old code. This introduces even more bugs. In spirit of current practice, only some of these new bugs will get fixed. Final result is more and more old and new bugs, layers of bugs, strata upon strata of bugs... *shrudder*

So no, being placeholder code is no excuse, especially if this placeholder will be present for months if not years, interacting with rest of game that is developed in meantime.

hint: it's because we don't care.

I know it very well. I consider it suicidal in long run, but ah well. I cannot influence Toady nor other playes, I can only voice my humble opinion on this topic.

This opinion is "If you care about DF in long run, you should pressure Toady to do bugfixing before adding new features". I know, not gonna happen. And with this Fun, optimistic accent, I will shut up now.

[EmperorNuthulu]

 If toady gave us a christmas present it would be a giant santa claus, 1000 times the size of a bronze colossus, that's completely unkillable, breaths out some sort of festive cheer that melts dwarves and comes as straight thing as you dig into anything.

[thvaz]

there is no real gain in fixing this throwaway code which was added as a limited prototype in the first place.

Fitst: old bugs may and will have influence on other parts of game, making harder to create these parts, and in future harder to rewrite current code. Workarounds and interdependencies (when one feature depends on buggy behaviour of another feature) are real pain in the ass.
Second: for some time, Toady is focused more on adding new features, not rewriting old code. This introduces even more bugs. In spirit of current practice, only some of these new bugs will get fixed. Final result is more and more old and new bugs, layers of bugs, strata upon strata of bugs... *shrudder*

So no, being placeholder code is no excuse, especially if this placeholder will be present for months if not years, interacting with rest of game that is developed in meantime.

hint: it's because we don't care.

I know it very well. I consider it suicidal in long run, but ah well. I cannot influence Toady nor other playes, I can only voice my humble opinion on this topic.

This opinion is "If you care about DF in long run, you should pressure Toady to do bugfixing before adding new features". I know, not gonna happen. And with this Fun, optimistic accent, I will shut up now.

It is like this since DF was first released. Toady never fixes all the bugs before adding new features - he is always moving on. He already made clear thar he does so because he wants to have fun while coding - when it isn't fun to him anymore, he is more likely to stop.

Occasionally, he will come to a feature where that bug is relevant and will fix it. simple as that. It may take years, but he will fix it. And he is always fixing really game breaking bugs all the time post-releases.

So your humble opinion is based on a very superficial analysis based on your selfish desire of playing a finished bug-free game; not on the fact, told on DF talks and posts by Toady himself, that the real fact determining wheter or not he will finish this game is the fact he is having fun with it.

[LoSboccacc]

So your humble opinion is based on a very superficial analysis based on your selfish desire of playing a finished bug-free game; not on the fact, told on DF talks and posts by Toady himself, that the real fact determining wheter or not he will finish this game is the fact he is having fun with it.

more to the point, trolling this thread is even more annoying.

[monk12]

Monk12 has completed a mysterious construction!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merry Beardmas, Toady!

[Thundrim]

Hohoho. If not for Yuletide, we will have omelet.. er... eggs for Easter! So it's not like we shall be left wanting!

---

[hermes]

I managed to reach Toady for a comment on release demands...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Rowanas]

I managed to reach Toady for a comment on release demands...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merry Christmas everyone!

Very funny. I laughed, nay... guffawed.

[Trouserman]

more to the point, trolling this thread is even more annoying.

Who exactly is trolling here?  Madciol's first post may have been a bit acrimonious, but expresses a perfectly valid opinion about what would be a lovely Christmas surprise.  Wouldn't you be happy to have a version with fewer bugs, too?  His opinion was challenged, and he supported it with a rational argument.  On the other side, we've got people being just as acrimonious telling him to get out.  Is that somehow Christmasier?

So your humble opinion is based on a very superficial analysis based on your selfish desire of playing a finished bug-free game; not on the fact, told on DF talks and posts by Toady himself, that the real fact determining wheter or not he will finish this game is the fact he is having fun with it.

While this is also an important consideration, it does not make Madciol's analysis superficial or based on selfish desire.  In fact his analysis appears to be based on programming experience.  That he also desires a push for bug fixes so the game will be more enjoyable for him is his motivation for expressing this as a Christmas wish.  How can you take exception to that?

Personally, I'd be happy to have new features, but even happier to have better playability.  And I think this would be good for the project because better playability makes play testing more fun, which makes development as a whole more enjoyable for the remainder of the project.  But Toady clearly isn't me.

Trouserman has been happy lately.  He is quite pleased with creating a dwarven holiday project recently.  He has been satisfied at work lately.  He admired a very fine game feature lately.  He was annoyed by bugs.  He was forced to endure an awkward user interface.  He was comforted by a pet lately.

[monk12]

I managed to reach Toady for a comment on release demands...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merry Christmas everyone!

Very funny. I laughed, nay... guffawed.

I bow to the master.

[G-Flex]

oh please, this is a one man project, toady is never ever going to fix a bug on a section of the game which is going to have a major code rewrite!

No, I'm talking about features which aren't placeholders and just were the subject of a "major code rewrite".

combat bugs? there is the combat rewrite coming down in the near future, why spend a month on fixing combat bugs when a month could be used to move toward the rewrite?

I'm talking about the things that were just rewritten. The materials/combat/body/tissue rewrites have serious bugs/flaws to them which do not fall under the umbrella of some hypothetical rewrite. The fact of the matter here is that when Toady implements new systems, they tend to be a little buggy/quirky/off, which is probably expected, and I just wish a little more time were spent polishing those up and fixing things before moving on to new feature development. I'm not saying this because I expect anything out of a free product. I'm saying this because I think it would make for better development, and a better experience for the players.

I understand your point about "placeholder code", to some degree, but placeholder code isn't what I'm referring to in the slightest.

[Gatleos]

I managed to reach Toady for a comment on release demands...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merry Christmas everyone!

That is the best MS Paint drawing I've ever seen.

[Deon]

There is a special forum for bugs, discuss them there.

I WANT MY CHRISTMAS PILE OF CHRISTMAS ELVEN CORPSES NOW! HERE!

[G-Flex]

There is a special forum for bugs, discuss them there.

We aren't making bug reports. We're discussing the development of the game insofar as bugs are concerned, and other things similar to bugs to varying degrees. There is a difference.

[scriver]

Even so, this is not the thread for that discussion. It may have started here, but that is not a reason to continue it.