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[Shadowlord]

For it ti be true though, none the less, ames or the PC have to be more complicated for then consoles.

I think so, Brain, but where are you going to find a DeLorean, a flux capacitor, and a car-portable nuclear reactor in order to visit Ames while they were still in business - and did they even carry computer games?

[Tellemurius]

the game was meant for pc for how many years but it will debut for the consoles but pc was first.

[Sowelu]

Now, for controls like you're after, there's always Descent...of course it still doesn't obey physics, but w/e.

Then there's Elite series, Terminus, Babylon5: I've found her, and Infinity(in production, but combat module is freely available). Full newtonian physics models in each of them, and apart from Terminus, all either freeware or abandonware, or with freeware remakes(Oolite).

Oh I did buy Terminus once upon a time.  That was pretty amusing actually.  Load an enormous freighter up with gold that you've mined from asteroids, try to head back to station, wonder why your ship isn't going anywhere.  Oh, it's just slow.  Okay.  I'm up to speed now.  And...The collision warning light just came on?  That doesn't make any sense.  The station is still minutes away!  I can't even see it!  I'll wait a while before starting to brake.  Okay, you can decelerate now.  Now please.  ...Uh oh.

(The day was saved by applying side-thrusters.)  Still, that game kind of sucked for ship-to-ship combat, and it STILL cheated.  All speed was measured relative to a fixed reference frame.  If you went above a certain speed, you started to take damage from solar wind or some other BS excuse.

[Soulwynd]

You're example, though legit, are at the extreme ends. (Assuming that Attack Chopper is a complicated game. Not familiar with it.)
For it ti be true though, none the less, ames or the PC have to be more complicated for then consoles. That, I'm not convince of. I will concdede that complicated games do seem more common on PCs then consoles.

It wasn't exactly complex, just not something we saw on the console at that time. Consoles have always been a bit more arcadeish and had their controls somewhat simplified. For example, a chopper game on the console (SNES) would be Desert Strike. It was a darn good game, but even that one was actually a port from the amiga game. I really liked playing choplifter as well.

I think the major issue for me is the controller and I don't like games being stuck with console conventions. Like 4 powers, radial menus, auto aim, things like that. I remember the time when games came with keyboard cutouts, like M$ Flight simulator and mechwarrior (something like this). There are still some good simulators on the PC, but meh, this generation doesn't seem to like realism. Plus there's the whole button smashing thing. I even remember a PCGamer magazine from 92 complaining about a game that was made mostly for the SNES having way too much button smashing and that it didn't have place in the pc. It was some winter olympics game. hah.

[ductape]

I was very excited for a few seconds about Neverwinter, I as hoping for a full-blown persistent world toolset designed to improve upon the Aurora toolset used in NWN modules.

Then I realized that the player made content will just be some side adventures and many aspects will not be available to tweak. NO DM'ing. Utter crap is what it is.

Oh, what I would do for a well made update to NWN that would allow DM players and PC players to come together on persistent worlds and adventures designed by the community members. This would be the most awesome gift. Until then NWN1 will still be the only viable answer to this otherwise unfilled niche. (NWN2 is too time consuming.annoying to work with).

[Il Palazzo]

Terminus.

Truth be told, I've never gotten into Terminus, so apart from flying aroun the station to test the physics, I don't know much about it. I guess it felt too small when compared to Elite, or something.
Kind of same with Infinity, I've never flown a ship in it's released combat model, so I've no idea how it works.
As for newtonian combat that is actually confirmed good(and Elite was only so-so in this respect), I'd recommend the previously mentioned Babylon5: I've Found Her(it's freeware, go and get it!). Lots of getting used to the initially counter-intuitive ideas of fighting in space, but quite rewarding in the end.

[de5me7]

Now, for controls like you're after, there's always Descent...of course it still doesn't obey physics, but w/e.

Then there's Elite series, Terminus, Babylon5: I've found her, and Infinity(in production, but combat module is freely available). Full newtonian physics models in each of them, and apart from Terminus, all either freeware or abandonware, or with freeware remakes(Oolite).

Is Terminus abandonware? Any idea where i can get it?

[Il Palazzo]

Well, it's in that precarious situation of being still licensed, while already discontinued.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Now, for controls like you're after, there's always Descent...of course it still doesn't obey physics, but w/e.

Then there's Elite series, Terminus, Babylon5: I've found her, and Infinity(in production, but combat module is freely available). Full newtonian physics models in each of them, and apart from Terminus, all either freeware or abandonware, or with freeware remakes(Oolite).

Is Terminus abandonware? Any idea where i can get it?

The only way to know for sure is to pirate it and announce it, and then see if you get arrested.  If not, it's abandonware.

[Saint]

Dear op,
   Punch your "friend" in the face, then proceed to drown him in a tub of PC games.

~Saint

[Tellemurius]

its a chick dude.

[Ephemeriis]

PC Gaming is alive and well...  It just isn't necessarily the same thing as Console Gaming.

The big-name developers like to focus on the consoles.  There's less overhead in development.  There's less piracy.  It's a more uniform platform.  PC's will typically see a port of something that was developed with a console in mind.  Just take a look at nearly any cross-platform shooter released in recent history.

But there's still a lot of activity in the PC gaming scene...

There's a lot of big titles that just don't work on a console.  Any kind of RTS is going to be released on computer.  Things like Starcraft II and Civilization and things like that.  MMOGs continue to be almost exclusive to PCs as well.

Then you've got the titles that may be available on consoles, but with severely limited mod-ability.  Look at something like Oblivion.  Nice toolkit for the PC...  Tons of free mods available...  Very limited on the consoles.

And then you've got craptons of smaller, independent developers turning out PC games.  Folks like Stardock and EGOSOFT and Positech.

[Ninteen45]

Dear op,
   Punch your "friend" in the face, then proceed to drown him in a tub of PC games.

~Saint

Giving the OP's posting history he's probably done that and drowned the poor girls puppy while burning her house down.

As for you, Acting like an internet tough guy is a notch higher than shooting yourself in the genitals on the stupidity scale.

[Cthulhu]

Dear op,
   Punch your "friend" in the face, then proceed to drown him in a tub of PC games.

~Saint

He's right.  Video games are really important, and someone who prefers console games isn't good enough to be your friend.

[Virtz]

I am very upset about forum posts.