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[breadbocks]

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS LOVABLE! THIS SO MANY TIMES!

I got tired of the whole "cinematic"/"art" gaming trend the moment FFVII came out. Thing is? It's only gotten worse. These days, some games are more cutscene than gameplay.

Agreed. It gets even worse when the game's message seems about as deep as Paris Hilton's personality and yet it still gets praised for it.

See: Metroid Other M.

This is really why I like DF. It's highly ambitious, has an unusual degree of realism, and gives no shit about trying to dictate a tone or a storyline, leaving the players to find their own sense of things, and their own stories within the game's vast possibilities (limited basically only by its unfinished-ness and its fantasy setting).

Actually, DF IS meant to dictate a story. It is just randomly made, and doesn't shove it into your face 24/7. I think somewhere along the way Toady said that when it was all said and done, legends mode would pretty much be a homemade fantasy novel.

[Il Palazzo]

Now, for controls like you're after, there's always Descent...of course it still doesn't obey physics, but w/e.

Then there's Elite series, Terminus, Babylon5: I've found her, and Infinity(in production, but combat module is freely available). Full newtonian physics models in each of them, and apart from Terminus, all either freeware or abandonware, or with freeware remakes(Oolite).

[Cthulhu]

PCs and consoles are both great, for different reasons.  The problem is that lately they've been porting all of the drawbacks from one system to the other.  Sold separately external hard drives on consoles, matchmaking on PCs, buggy-ass "we'll just patch it later" games on consoles, console controls on PCs, etc.

Neither of them are dead though.  There's still plenty of quality new games being developed for each.  Valve lurve PC, Crytek's games would kick a 360's ass, and so on.

You do know that Crysis 2 is being developed for consoles right?

yea but they are tweaking the engine to reduce to the massive system needs a console can't handle (well the ps3 should be able to handle it).

Which is my point.  They're lowering the technical quality of it so the consoles can handle it with their ancient hardware and 512 megs of RAM.

Same thing they did with Oblivion.

Crytek's already said they intend to make the game look better than the original.  Seeing as you guys have brought the End is Nigh signs out over less info than that, I'd say it's reasonable to assume the game is going to look great.

[nuker w]

Tropico 4? Yeeeeeeeeeees. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeees.

[MrWiggles]

I propose that PC gaming was never really alive. That its 90s golden years, were a flook. That it never really took away the gaming market from consoles in the first place.


---
Also, there are some freaken sweet games coming in 2011. Though, I do wish that Stronghold 3 wasn't coming out, in favor of Space Colony 2.

[Shrugging Khan]

Actually, DF IS meant to dictate a story.

Which we dictate by means of world gen parameters and our direct involvement via fortress / adv. mode.

[MrWiggles]

And Magma.

[Ultimuh]

these exlusives of 2011

Looks like I'm going to spend alot of money in 2011 and.. wait..

 

Duke Nukem Forever

..WHAT??

[Tellemurius]

seriously you guys you just heard the Duke is making a comeback, this news came out in October with a very awesome demo    preview so we know the game's legacy is not ruined.

[Ozyton]

There was a demo for Duke Nukem Forever at some games convention thing.. I think it was PAX? Video wasn't released publicly, but people were allowed to take pictures of it from their cameras.

[Soulwynd]

Oh, and by the way Soulwynd...
vvv

Hmm, pizza. Btw, don't eat too much pizza without someone to share with. It can be fattening.

I propose that PC gaming was never really alive. That its 90s golden years, were a flook. That it never really took away the gaming market from consoles in the first place.

I think everyone knows that. But they mean the gaming style changed to the point it's sometimes hard to distinguish what would categorize a pc game from a console game anymore.

For example, I spent a few years of my early teenager years playing this on the pc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3OUrgf1Lg
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTGneDh-SMY

Meanwhile on the console, I played this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqOlpQ7sepE
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQ-Nbinx78

Not that things weren't somewhat mixed already and going that way, but I do miss the unique complex games we had on pc that were later ported to the consoles. Like X-Com. Now it's the other way around and old school pc gamers are flooded with things we might find simplified or that have control styles we don't like. Major reason I avoid any game that has the "Games for windows live" tag.

[Hiiri]

As far as Grand Strategy goes, EUIII got comparatively close, but blundered in many ways, and is a very limited experience overall.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Since no one has said it yet, DNF is being made by Gearbox.  Here's hoping it's not a console port.

PCs and consoles are both great, for different reasons.  The problem is that lately they've been porting all of the drawbacks from one system to the other.  Sold separately external hard drives on consoles, matchmaking on PCs, buggy-ass "we'll just patch it later" games on consoles, console controls on PCs, etc.

Neither of them are dead though.  There's still plenty of quality new games being developed for each.  Valve lurve PC, Crytek's games would kick a 360's ass, and so on.

You do know that Crysis 2 is being developed for consoles right?

yea but they are tweaking the engine to reduce to the massive system needs a console can't handle (well the ps3 should be able to handle it).

Which is my point.  They're lowering the technical quality of it so the consoles can handle it with their ancient hardware and 512 megs of RAM.

Same thing they did with Oblivion.

Crytek's already said they intend to make the game look better than the original.  Seeing as you guys have brought the End is Nigh signs out over less info than that, I'd say it's reasonable to assume the game is going to look great.

Not sure how they expect to do that but that wasn't what I was referring to, and is a very vague statement at best.  What I'm talking about is the mandatory dumbing down of the gameplay mechanics in order to cater to the console hardware and audience.  For example, in Oblivion they made all the cities in their own separate cells which resulted in them removing flight spells and flying creatures as well, nevermind the damage it did to the artistic design and believability of the cities.

For example:
http://chorrol.com/files/133/ob_concept03Ba.jpg

In Crysis 2 with only 512 megs of RAM and all the other hardware limitations of the consoles we can probably expect either something like CoD with small linear levels and high attention to detail or something like GTA with wide open areas that forget everything that's happened in the world the moment you leave the immediate area.

[PenguinOverlord]

As far as Grand Strategy goes, EUIII got comparatively close, but blundered in many ways, and is a very limited experience overall. MoO3 also tried to take a somewhat proper approach to macro-management, but that's about all the good to be said about it.
ArmA is a good one for FPS, but the game is purely about bland old american soldiers fighting small skirmishes against the minor evil du jour. As far as I'm concerned, FPSs have to get away from that schtick and take their gameplay realism into more creative, fictive worlds.
Star Ruler went to newtonian physics, but the game is so ridiculously bland and devoid of features you might just as well be throwing rocks around.
Jagged Alliance in TBS is pretty neat, aside from being a TBS. Given that you prop it up with a healthy dose of the 2.1.13 mod, that is.

Obviously, there's DF in the RTS and RPG corners, never mind the obvious fantasy aspects. At least it gets its realism down rightways, except for, for example,...no poo? WTF!

But really now, I do wonder...realism, with only very few abstractions where absolutely necessary, brings enormous intrinsic advantages in immersion and balancing. You just take it, make your game to work by realistic rules, and put it into an interesting scenario...how hard can it be, gaming industries, HOW HARD CAN IT BE!?

Magna Mundi.

[MrWiggles]

Oh, and by the way Soulwynd...
vvv

Hmm, pizza. Btw, don't eat too much pizza without someone to share with. It can be fattening.

I propose that PC gaming was never really alive. That its 90s golden years, were a flook. That it never really took away the gaming market from consoles in the first place.

I think everyone knows that. But they mean the gaming style changed to the point it's sometimes hard to distinguish what would categorize a pc game from a console game anymore.

For example, I spent a few years of my early teenager years playing this on the pc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3OUrgf1Lg
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTGneDh-SMY

Meanwhile on the console, I played this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqOlpQ7sepE
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQ-Nbinx78

Not that things weren't somewhat mixed already and going that way, but I do miss the unique complex games we had on pc that were later ported to the consoles. Like X-Com. Now it's the other way around and old school pc gamers are flooded with things we might find simplified or that have control styles we don't like. Major reason I avoid any game that has the "Games for windows live" tag.

You're example, though legit, are at the extreme ends. (Assuming that Attack Chopper is a complicated game. Not familiar with it.)
For it ti be true though, none the less, ames or the PC have to be more complicated for then consoles. That, I'm not convince of. I will concdede that complicated games do seem more common on PCs then consoles.