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[ToonyMan]

in reality it was to catch ToonyMan and Zathras. Since Zathras got away, you lost.

Oh.

Wouldn't it help if we were told our actual goal in the game?  Since you usually inform the minority more so we don't just float around.  I was going by my role's win condition, not some other one I wasn't alluded to.

[Jim Groovester]

The Fake Doppelgangers were trained to act 'off', like real doppelgangers do. So you'd have gotten a 'Doppelganger' result from either of the fake doppelgangers as well as from Zathras. Everyone but the fake doppelgangers was supposedly human for the simulation, so getting an Alien result would have only come from the actual Aliens. Not that you'd have any way of knowing that.

Well, damn.

I don't think the game was necessarily luck based, but our good luck in the simulation didn't help us any. If we weren't so damned good and lucky we might've figured out that something was wrong.

[Mephansteras]

in reality it was to catch ToonyMan and Zathras. Since Zathras got away, you lost.

Oh.

Wouldn't it help if we were told our actual goal in the game?  Since you usually inform the minority more so we don't just float around.  I was going by my role's win condition, not some other one I wasn't alluded to.

Well, it wasn't made specific in your PM but it did tell you that you didn't want to be discovered:

That’s what they think. You’re actually a Spore Spreader. This host was infected shortly before this exercise was supposed to start. It’s unfortunate, since this exercise has a high chance of exposing you. But if you can cause this host to explode, you might infect enough people that the spores can spread off and survive. To do so you’ve rigged a device that will kill this host if it is exposed to the tracking laser they use to do identity scans. You just need them to vote you out and it’ll go off.

[ToonyMan]

Of course it does, I'm an alien.  Even a survivor alien is a risk to the town if the dopps are still around end game.

[Mr.Person]

Even I have to agree with ToonyMan that you didn't really say that getting found out would cause ToonyMan to lose.

[Mephansteras]

I can see that. Apparently in a Bastard game you need to be a lot more clear about what win conditions are known and which aren't. Leafsnail, for example , didn't realize that he was town until he asked about it. I don't normally point out that people are town, and it's never been an issue.

Running a Bastard Mod game takes a bit more care, I think.

[Leafsnail]

Well, you said in the OP quite explicitly that

3) Your win condition may or may not be obvious. Part of this game is figuring out the puzzle.

So I assumed I was one of the people who didn't know.  Since a telepath can just as easily be dopp or town.

[Mephansteras]

Yeah, I understand why you'd be confused. Just noting that I can't make some of my normal assumptions, apparently.

[Zathras]

To be fair, I lied to you guys too, Jim and Zathras.

I actually was an Alien, as you guessed, but I was an alien outside of the game, and my in-game role was town, so I figured I was supposed to try and win it as town without giving away that I was an alien. Apparently that was wrong, since I still lost...

Yeah, your alienness was pretty obvious, what with the tech and the Op being supposed to be an alien and all. It only really worked at making you more suspicious ("Alien? Me? Are you serious?" in the agent chat, plus your infinitely scummy modulator). You lost not because you weren't outed as an alien, but because you ignored the puzzle and let town lose by letting me get away.

Regarding the rest, yes, I see how Leaf and Toony may be confused, but I maintain that the main two reasons for that were: a) the game ended too soon (hey, I ruined the game by winning too fast!); and b) you guys spent zero effort on trying to unravel the puzzle. You gave a couple of chuckles about it, and then promptly ignored it, even after being told that the flavour (like the "there are two dopps" thing) would be misleading. You have no one but yourselves to blame for that. Hell, I was berated D1 for trying to call attention to the puzzle thing both on thread and on the chat, so I stopped trying.


Couple of other thoughts: Toony, your hidden wincon was not just to stay undetected, but to get lynched! You were supposed to be a jester, get lynched, win, infect townies, and your blood would have made Dariush go postal. And Leaf, your playing as "the eye of truth is upon you" and all that was interesting, but it lacked conviction, or activity or something; it sounded promising as part of the puzzle, but eventually went nowhere. I am curious about this "Disciple of Truth" role that I'm told used to exist -- can anyone point me to an old game where that had a major impact? I'd like to see it.

Edit:

our good luck in the simulation didn't help us any. If we weren't so damned good and lucky we might've figured out that something was wrong.

Yup. Mislynching Janus instead of nailing Dariush D2 would paradoxically have been better for town. It also would have made me look quite scummy (though I honestly thought Janus was scum).

[ToonyMan]

My hiddenwin may have been to get lynched however my normal win was to get lynched or win with town.  I had no problem helping town after resolving myself.

[Toaster]

Aww.  I figured there was a hivemind for a minute there, after seeing Org's claim.

I didn't block anyone N1, because we were going to set up a gambit where Dariush claimed being blocked.  That obviously backfired when we nailed Zath's shield.

I made three mistakes this game:

1.  I should have claimed to have blocked someone.  It would not have necessarily convicted me, but it should have lynched that other person... unless of course I had blamed Jim or Joker.
2.  I didn't do enough work to press a case on Janus.  Honestly- I didn't see at ALL where that wagon came from.  It wasn't even really scum-led.
3.  I should have claimed my dealings with Zath on D3.  It almost certainly would not have saved me beyond a day, but it would have set off serious warning bells for Jim and Joker.  I *really* should have seen it when he said Joker was the agent and Jim claimed it.


Dariush, did you know about your mental instability?

Anyway, I had fun.  Would play again.

[Leafsnail]

Regarding the rest, yes, I see how Leaf and Toony may be confused, but I maintain that the main two reasons for that were: a) the game ended too soon (hey, I ruined the game by winning too fast!);

Well, actually it seems we ruined the game by playing too well >.>

and b) you guys spent zero effort on trying to unravel the puzzle. You gave a couple of chuckles about it, and then promptly ignored it, even after being told that the flavour (like the "there are two dopps" thing) would be misleading.

But there was no hint that "If you complete your win condition you will suddenly lose".  What exactly were we meant to do?  Not lynch confirmed scum because, uh "the puzzle"?

And Leaf, your playing as "the eye of truth is upon you" and all that was interesting, but it lacked conviction, or activity or something; it sounded promising as part of the puzzle, but eventually went nowhere. I am curious about this "Disciple of Truth" role that I'm told used to exist -- can anyone point me to an old game where that had a major impact? I'd like to see it.

It was just a random idea I had to see if I could find anything about the setup.  I was just implying I had some kind of truth scanning abilty which I'd need to set up with one of those questions.

It was pretty obviously not something Meph would put in the game, so I didn't see much point in going overboard with it.

Yup. Mislynching Janus instead of nailing Dariush D2 would paradoxically have been better for town. It also would have made me look quite scummy (though I honestly thought Janus was scum).

Yeah.  In that way, I suppose I actually caused the town to lose the game when I learnt of my win condition.  I think this is the one game where it would've been better if everyone acted like Org.

[JanusTwoface]

Well, I'm never one for Bastard games, but that was pretty fun.  Hindsight being 20/20, there should have been a Mass Claim before killing the second Dopp, just to see what was going on.  Particularly with the Leafsnail / ToonyMan thing.

I feel pretty good about the game, having managed to talk myself out of getting bandwagon-lynched, getting a dopp lynched instead, and giving my life protecting a town Agent from two kills.  Even if had I been lynched instead the game probably would have gone better for the town.

So far as I'm concerned, I'd prefer you run a few vanilla Paranormals before running another Bastard game.  Don't have to be *quite* as paranoid.  I'll join either though.

Org:
I see what you were doing now and I understand why you did it.  It was still rather stupid though.  You were a town War Vet, and by acting so much like the Jester, it was almost guaranteed that someone would try to figure out your actual alignment.

Problem is, the scum already knew you weren't one of them, so they wouldn't bother to target you so you were just killing townies.  What's more, you were being distracting and not helpful at all to the town, so there wasn't even a reason for the dopps to target you for the nightkill, which is probably the best use of a town War Vet...

All in all, you've just managed to convince me that you're even more worth policy-lynching Day 1.

On that note though, I do withdraw my objection to the Spore Spreader.  For some reason, I didn't realize that they needed to eventually work with the town to actually win.  Essentially, they're a slightly stronger, town-aligned Survivor (stronger because they don't necessarily lose if they die).  Be interesting to see how one works out in a non-Bastard game.

[ToonyMan]

Yeah, Spore Spreader is cool because it helps to help town unless of course you're in a Bastard game.

Funny how I got a jester role again...

[Mephansteras]

I'll probably be doing a normal Paranormal or Supernatural next. Bastard was interesting, but I'll have to come up with another interesting scenario before I'd try to run one again.