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[Leafsnail]

So how exactly was the town meant to win this game?

[Zathras]

If it had lasted one more night, I'd have to kill and you'd have known there was an actual dopp out there (blood and stuff instead of printed results on a monitor, I'd wager); I bet the game then would have continued until you found me or I killed enough of you. Me being lynched or dying another way (like it almost happened N1 but for the shield) would also have done it. Finding Toony (though he did it himself) was also part of your hidden wincon, I'd say.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Also, I was an Actual Kook

And i disagree with you, it is not viable if you MASS-claim. Claiming to 1 person is basically nothing. All you goot from it was a reprieve from scans.

[ToonyMan]

I didn't know I would lose, it wasn't hinted in my role pm and the two win goals are to either win with town or be the last man standing.  Winning with town sounds like town wouldn't mind me.  If I'd known that not revealing my role would have probably changed nothing since Org claimed while I was making the post.  I even said I was just going to keep my post the way it was for keepsake, I would never do that otherwise, maaan.  >_<

[Leafsnail]

If it had lasted one more night, I'd have to kill and you'd have known there was an actual dopp out there (blood and stuff instead of printed results on a monitor, I'd wager); I bet the game then would have continued until you found me or I killed enough of you. Me being lynched or dying another way (like it almost happened N1 but for the shield) would also have done it. Finding Toony (though he did it himself) was also part of your hidden wincon, I'd say.

But... how were we meant to have done that?  The other doppelgangers were exactly like you except they actually obeyed the rules of the game.  Why should any of us think "Instead of looking for doppelgangers, we should intentionally avoid lynching them and start randomly lynching masons"?

[Zathras]

But... how were we meant to have done that?  The other doppelgangers were exactly like you except they actually obeyed the rules of the game.  Why should any of us think "Instead of looking for doppelgangers, we should intentionally avoid lynching them and start randomly lynching masons"?

I see your point, but I direct your attention to the "bastard" part of the thread title, and the "your win conditions may not be obvious; part of the game is figuring out the puzzle" on the OP. There were a number of clues along the way: the fact that some were in a team, which you didn't know, but Jim and Joker did, the antiseptic nature of the training area almost screamed "will be bloody later!", and the fact that the setting was explicitly about seeing how good you were at finding dopps! There had to be something hidden there.

No, I think the most important parts of why you don't see a path to a town victory are: a) the game ended too soon (sooner than even Meph thought, I think), and b) nobody spent any effort in trying to solve the friggin' puzzle! It was a bastard. There was a puzzle. But y'all ignored it, and that eventually bit you in the ass.


Heh, on the other hand, I'm biased: I knew there was an actual dopp, and I'm happy I won. 8-)


PS: I was entirely honest about my case on Janus. I truly thought he was Toaster's buddy, and I wanted him dead so the game could be over before I had to out myself N3. But it worked out.

PPE: MBP: Yeah, I see what you say, but the point of claiming is to save an agent an inspection, so I claimed to the agent. Sure, I didn't do it to the thread, but I still did it as a scum tactic, and it worked. Knowing who the agent was just made it safer and more economical, plus going after you for it gave me town points with both Jim and the thread. 8-)

[Leafsnail]

What puzzle was there to solve?

I mean, let's say we worked out absolutely everything about the bastard element of the game perfectly.  We realized that the "dopps" weren't our main enemies, and that we were trying to find an actual doppelganger.  What then?  All our roles would be useless in finding them.  Even if we perfectly identified all 3 scum, we'd have no way to know who to lynch first.

[Zathras]

Now you're just being a sore loser. Your roles worked fine. Had you scanned me N3, you'd have gotten "kill"; if you then forced a mass claim D4, and I said "agent", you'd have enough to lynch me, yes?

PS: Also, there were only "sim dopps" and one "actual dopp"; not that different from a normal paranormal with "dopps" and one "ext", about whom you don't know at the start, yes? What's so different or unfair? The only major difference is that the ext in this case was also a survivor. Oh, what an insurmountable obstacle!

[Leafsnail]

No, actually.  I would've gotten "find".

I got survive on Toony because he was a townie "in the game".  I would've gotten find on you because you were an agent "in the game".  I presume all investigative roles would've operated in the same way.

[Zathras]

I explicitly asked that question of Meph, and he confirmed a telepath would've gotten "kill" if I killed or attempted to kill (even if I was blocked by a warden, my intention to kill would be enough for you to see it if you scanned me).

(also, see my edit above)

[Zathras]

- If I choose to kill, and am targeted by a telepath, they'd get a "Kill" result instead of the default "Find", yes? Yes
- If I choose to kill, but I'm targeted by both a warden and a telepath, the warden would block my kill, would then the telepath get the default "Find" or my aborted-but-intended "Kill"? A Kill result
- What's the deal with Leafsnail and truth? Yeah, yeah, you can't say. I'm hellishly curious, though. You'd have to ask him.

[ToonyMan]

I would like to share this quote Night 1.

I don't have a night action right?  None then.

No, night action for you.

If this is what I think it is, it's Meph telling me I have a night action, even though I don't.

[Leafsnail]

PS: Also, there were only "sim dopps" and one "actual dopp"; not that different from a normal paranormal with "dopps" and one "ext", about whom you don't know at the start, yes? What's so different or unfair? The only major difference is that the ext in this case was also a survivor. Oh, what an insurmountable obstacle!

No, the difference was that all our investigative roles were sending us in the wrong direction and we'd autolose if we lynched the scum in the wrong order.

I explicitly asked that question of Meph, and he confirmed a telepath would've gotten "kill" if I killed or attempted to kill (even if I was blocked by a warden, my intention to kill would be enough for you to see it if you scanned me).

Then why the heck did I get a survive result on ToonyMan, someone whose case was exactly the same as yours?

[Zathras]

No, the difference was that all our investigative roles were sending us in the wrong direction and we'd autolose if we lynched the scum in the wrong order.

Other than the Toony thing, all investigative results seemed to be working just fine, yes? And the lynch order was the puzzle! You'd lose the bastard if you fail to solve the puzzle, yes. Though you'd still have won if I died some other way.

I explicitly asked that question of Meph, and he confirmed a telepath would've gotten "kill" if I killed or attempted to kill (even if I was blocked by a warden, my intention to kill would be enough for you to see it if you scanned me).

Then why the heck did I get a survive result on ToonyMan, someone whose case was exactly the same as yours?

That, I don't know. It's for Meph to answer. But Toony, did you have any flavour of mindshield or tech?

[ToonyMan]

You arrive in the Simulation complex and are directed to an small room to receive your role for the exercise.

 Inside you find a desk with a folder on it. Inside is the following information:

    Role: Townsperson. You represent an average citizen. Your job is to help figure out who the doppelgangers are and eliminate them with your votes during the Day.
   

That’s what they think. You’re actually a Spore Spreader. This host was infected shortly before this exercise was supposed to start. It’s unfortunate, since this exercise has a high chance of exposing you. But if you can cause this host to explode, you might infect enough people that the spores can spread off and survive. To do so you’ve rigged a device that will kill this host if it is exposed to the tracking laser they use to do identity scans. You just need them to vote you out and it’ll go off.