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Author Topic: Guard Towers?  (Read 2717 times)

Shelegelah

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Guard Towers?
« on: December 12, 2010, 05:50:48 pm »

So, how exactly do they work with regards to elevation? I've currently got a pretty decent-sized one about two z-levels above my entrance, but it seems unable to fire down upon my enemies. How does elevation affect the range of my crossbowdwarves?
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twilightdusk

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2010, 05:54:51 pm »

each z-level up or down from the target reduces the range of projectiles by 1. Also make sure that your walls are fortifications that can be fired through.
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UnrealJake

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2010, 05:59:55 pm »

Guard towers are awesome. Don't care if they work. They're awesome.

I love building barracks that have these hallways all leading out and then they go up into these bunkers, pill boxes, towers, all surrounding my fort. Why?

Why not?

But they don't help with range, infact each Z-Level up or down will reduce it by said ammount, however if you use fortifications they can shoot out from them no problem [if standing next to it] but enemies will have a hard time returning fire. Unless they get lucky.

If you want to use Ballistae & catapults, make sure they're on the SAME z-level though.
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Shelegelah

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2010, 06:04:14 pm »

Thanks for the responses. Of course the walls are fortifications, that would just be.... illogical, otherwise. The range thing explains a lot, though.

I tried to have a little death-room on the same level as my enemies, but the goblins had literally zero problems shooting in through the fortifications and pin-cushioning my marksdwarves.
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twilightdusk

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 06:23:54 pm »

Yea, fortifications don't care which direction the projectiles are coming from. Makes them best used to pincushion melee enemies who can't fight back through them.
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Max White

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 06:28:05 pm »

I was under the impression that the range that the shooter is from the fortifacation will affect the projectiles likelyhood to pass through said fortifacation.

Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 07:08:48 pm »

I was under the impression that the range that the shooter is from the fortifacation will affect the projectiles likelyhood to pass through said fortifacation.
Skill matters as well. Elite goblins are have been observed to snipe marksdwarves through fortifications from a distance.

twilightdusk

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2010, 07:17:20 pm »

I was under the impression that the range that the shooter is from the fortifacation will affect the projectiles likelyhood to pass through said fortifacation.

I can't vouch for how true that is, but distance won't stop enemy archers from firing through your fortifications.
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NewSheoth

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2010, 07:31:16 pm »

If goblins or anyone else can walk up to fortifications, they receive no penalty. Means they can shoot your dwarves just fine.
Raise the fortifications one z-level and they're pincushions while your dwarves are just fine.
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GuudeSpelur

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2010, 09:02:30 pm »

If you're farther away from the fortification, it is harder to shoot through. However, if you've got 10 bowgoblins, each with 30-50 arrows, all firing continuously at one dwarf behind a fortification... well, a couple are going to get through. 
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Nelia Hawk

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 09:10:08 pm »

hmm, does that mean that if one of these nice human forts would be attacked by goblins... the 5+ zlvl high walls and towers would be totally useless?


could have been fun to appear as adventurer at a fort that is sieged by goblins that moment and the battle breaks out....   well maybe in some "army update arc".
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Camden1990

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 11:24:55 pm »

It sounds like you do not intend to build said guard towers if they're useless?
This is most undwarfy, in fact, I would personally make sure to build 50+ zlvl towers. Out of adamantine. Ideally with magma flowing from the fortifications.
This way, you just kill the goblins with your awesome.
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Loyal

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2010, 12:36:11 am »

Fortifications don't appear to have any affect on projectiles anymore. However, they're still useful in that they block melee, and you don't need to worry about your marksdwarves dodging off the firing range and plummeting to their deaths.
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Shoku

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2010, 01:49:24 am »

Back in 40d fortifications were always described as a penalty on projectiles, bigger for further away. Standing next to them gave zero penalty and if you imagine shooting through a narrow slit the whole system makes sense. The lowest skill ranged units wouldn't even attempt to shoot through a fortification that was too much against their favor but back then all combat was simple enough that you it basically worked on rolling 10 sided dice. -9 penalty for fortification but +15 bonus for being legendary and, well you know.
*numbers totally made up but they are just there to make a point. Might have been accurate, I don't think we ever got the exact algorithm. It's different now anyway.

As for having them on the same level there is an easy way to keep enemies from standing directly next to them: channel out the tiles around them. Most people just built one level off the ground though as that makes more sense for non-game reasons. And yes, you could make this sort of thing exactly in your entryway. A more sensible situation for marksdorfs to shoot up the bowgobs is to have a room above your entrance hall with fortification facing into the fort. That way they have to go inside and then turn around to shoot at your guys, while still being something like two tiles away from the fortification, however useful that is. If you're a good enough architect you could easily implement both of these and just station your shooters wherever appropriate.
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slothen

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Re: Guard Towers?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2010, 09:43:43 am »

I have a 2 level wall around the outside of my fort, with a 4-wide floor inside it.  Fortifications on the outside.  At a few key locations the wall expands out sort of like a guard tower.  I've put a few archery targets around at these locations, placed so that my dwarves are firing toward the center of my fort.  This means they're standing directly next to the fortifications and if enemies appear while training, they will be immediately able to engage.
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