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[CJ1145]

But that ties into the "fanboy logic wringer" I just talked about. Your attempt to list a fault just had you talk about the best parts of the game and say "some people don't like this".

[Ephemeriis]

This is the sort of post that actually pushes me away from Planescape.

It's kind of funny...

A lot of those "classics" they try to make you read in school really are pretty decent.  But just because they tell you it's a classic and is instrumental in understanding modern literature, folks get turned off.

Maybe it'd work better if we banned all the classics?

I haven't even heard anything bad about the game. The closest is some mild criticism that then gets put through the infamous "fanboy logic" wringer and comes out even more praise than there was for the game to begin with. To me, that says somebody's hiding some big faults, or there's a bunch of little ones that got swept under the rug by the aforementioned nostalgia goggles.

Of course the game's got faults.  Of course there are bad things about it.  Dig up any review from 1999 and you'll see plenty of them.

But the faults aren't what make the game interesting.  They aren't why you go out and play it.  They aren't what you remember.  They aren't the reason folks are still talking about it 10 years later (unless they're talking about Daikatana).


Honestly, nobody really cares if you play Planescape: Torment.  It's no skin off my back.

But if you're going to talk about storylines and character development in RPGs...  Call yourself a fan of the genre...  Whatever...  Without playing Torment...  Well, it hurts your credibility a bit.

It's kind of like the kids I see talking about how much they love that amazing new song by {whoever} because it's soooo original...  But they don't realize it's actually a cover.

They're certainly entitled to their opinion.  And I'm glad they enjoy that song.  But they've obviously got no clue what they're talking about.

[CJ1145]

It's kind of funny...

A lot of those "classics" they try to make you read in school really are pretty decent.  But just because they tell you it's a classic and is instrumental in understanding modern literature, folks get turned off.

Except Frankenstein. Frankenstein's kind of fucking terrible. Silas Marner's okay, and I remember liking the Legend of Sleepy Hollow and things like that, but some of the more monumental classics I just can't understand. Oh, and the Red Badge of Courage has the worst protagonist in history. I hated Henry so much.

Of course the game's got faults.  Of course there are bad things about it.  Dig up any review from 1999 and you'll see plenty of them.

The problem is, these people are telling me all about this game, and how great it is. If I'm going to play it I want to know what I'm getting into. I don't want to hear about how it was the messiah of RPGs, then find out it was actually fairly decent, but its faults in comparison to the description make me hate it. I figure if I learn what people disliked as well as liked I have a better chance of approaching it objectively.

But the faults aren't what make the game interesting.  They aren't why you go out and play it.  They aren't what you remember.  They aren't the reason folks are still talking about it 10 years later (unless they're talking about Daikatana).

But I stand to benefit from learning these things, or at least stand to enjoy the game a little more.

Honestly, nobody really cares if you play Planescape: Torment.  It's no skin off my back.

I know you don't, but The Worst Gamer acts like he cares a bit more than is healthy.

But if you're going to talk about storylines and character development in RPGs...  Call yourself a fan of the genre...  Whatever...  Without playing Torment...  Well, it hurts your credibility a bit.

It's kind of like the kids I see talking about how much they love that amazing new song by {whoever} because it's soooo original...  But they don't realize it's actually a cover.

They're certainly entitled to their opinion.  And I'm glad they enjoy that song.  But they've obviously got no clue what they're talking about.

But you're not just standing off and thinking to yourself that I'm uninformed. You guys are running up, knocking me to the ground, and threatening to slit my throat with the CD of the original version, all while shouting about how my opinion is invalid and that cover I like is actually terrible.

[Ephemeriis]

But if you're going to talk about storylines and character development in RPGs...  Call yourself a fan of the genre...  Whatever...  Without playing Torment...  Well, it hurts your credibility a bit.

It's kind of like the kids I see talking about how much they love that amazing new song by {whoever} because it's soooo original...  But they don't realize it's actually a cover.

They're certainly entitled to their opinion.  And I'm glad they enjoy that song.  But they've obviously got no clue what they're talking about.

But you're not just standing off and thinking to yourself that I'm uninformed. You guys are running up, knocking me to the ground, and threatening to slit my throat with the CD of the original version, all while shouting about how my opinion is invalid and that cover I like is actually terrible.

That's a bit of an exaggeration there.

It's more like we were having a discussion about an upcoming release by {whoever}, as well as music in general.  And you stridently declared that their cover song was the best thing ever.  And some folks disagreed with you, pointed out that it was a cover, and suggested that you listen to the original.  You then wanted to know what was wrong with the original, and we all said "nothing, really, it's a damn good song."  And then you said that your stereo system doesn't play LPs so you weren't going to bother playing it.  To which we all responded "ok, it's your loss..." while rolling our eyes and completely dismissing your opinions on music in general and this particular cover in specific.

There were no physical attacks, nor their digital equivalent.  A lot of people told you that you didn't know what you were talking about...  But there weren't even a whole lot of insults flying around.  And, while there's been some discussion about the cover...  And some people don't like it...  Most of the posts have been to the effect that it's actually OK, for a cover.

Your interpretation of the discussion makes it very clear that you're taking this a lot more seriously and a lot more personally than the rest of us.

[CJ1145]

That's a bit of an exaggeration there.

It's more like we were having a discussion about an upcoming release by {whoever}, as well as music in general.  And you stridently declared that their cover song was the best thing ever.  And some folks disagreed with you, pointed out that it was a cover, and suggested that you listen to the original.  You then wanted to know what was wrong with the original, and we all said "nothing, really, it's a damn good song."  And then you said that your stereo system doesn't play LPs so you weren't going to bother playing it.  To which we all responded "ok, it's your loss..." while rolling our eyes and completely dismissing your opinions on music in general and this particular cover in specific.

There were no physical attacks, nor their digital equivalent.  A lot of people told you that you didn't know what you were talking about...  But there weren't even a whole lot of insults flying around.  And, while there's been some discussion about the cover...  And some people don't like it...  Most of the posts have been to the effect that it's actually OK, for a cover.

Anyway, I've tried to avoid anything that might be construed as an ad hominem attack, but I have to say this: You seem to be the epitome of fanboy. You've taken personal offence at everything I've said about the games ("You hates Bioware and Mass Effect AND AMERICA!"), you've refused to listen to anything I've said ("It's not true, no way it's true, I'm not listening to your crap!"), you're accusing me of advertising for Black Isle despite them not even really existing anymore and you just seem to be emotionally involved with Bioware's games which is, quite honestly, VERY creepy.

That is all.

That is my response to your claim. This is the kind of place this discussion has gone from your side.

The situation is more like we were discussing the newest release by (hurpty-hurp) and I mentioned that I really like that band, and that their covers always end up being really good. Then other people started scoffing and saying that I'm a retard if I think that band's covers have any worth, it's all the same shit that their favorite band did years ago, and I should listen to them or stop talking about music, it's that groundbreaking. Of course, I am heavily skeptical that it's half as good as these people say, so I ask them to give me the whole picture, good and bad, so I won't be disappointed if I go in expecting the greatest music of all time, as I don't want to waste my money on old music that'd be a hassle to play. So to explain its faults they say "Well, some of it was actually a little too groundbreaking for its time, too awesome for us to comprehend back then because it was so complex and novel." So I got pissed that you guys wouldn't give me an answer, and then they got pissed because... I have dissenting opinions, and the insults began to pelt me.

You're really turning a blind eye to some of the things that have been said if you claim this has been an entirely civil discussion.

[KaguroDraven]

Worst Gamer is just a prick, the others where being calm and haven't insulted you. I've never played planescape myself, though I've thought about downloading it I've had bad experiances with downloading games, for several reasons.
Also CJ1145 is right, it is better to go in knowing the faults, and EVERY game has faults, hell every form of entertainment has faults.

[The Scout]

How about we just calm down and stay on topic? And not try to be all hateful and "ARGGBL MY OPINION IS BETTER" and "YOUR A FUCKING RETARD, IT SUCKS"
Edit: I'm waiting, but the flaming isn't coming.

[Sergius]

I'm gonna do something very original, and suggest that by no means you should play Planescape. It's not worth your time. Seriously, just skip it and move on. There will be other games.

It's got, ah, flaws and stuff, and trust me, flaws are bad and you should avoid them. And there's this ridiculous talking skull that bites and insults people, and that's a big no no. And some girl voiced by some famous singer chick, and stuff.

The worst part is there's lots of writing. I mean, if I wanted writing, I'd read a book. Or graffitti. Plus the graphics are SO nineties, they're like, not cool anymore. Kinda like MC Hammer, or that Don't Copy That Floppy guy. Ok, those are actually more eighties, but you get my drift.

[Ephemeriis]

Plus the graphics are SO nineties, they're like, not cool anymore. Kinda like MC Hammer, or that Don't Copy That Floppy guy. Ok, those are actually more eighties, but you get my drift.

How dare you?!

MC Hammer is timeless!

[KaguroDraven]

Hooray for a complete and utter dumbshit prooveing me wrong by being a sarcastic twat nearly immediately after I try to defuse the situation. Now you're just comeing off a frothing at the mouth fanboy to be completely honest. Is it that difficult to beleive someone wants an opinion other than "OMG THIS GAME IS COMPLETELY PERFECT LOLOLOLOL ROFLCOPTER!"? For god's sake he was just asking about flaws in the game, and let me remind you ALL GAMES HAVE FLAWS, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR MEMORIES MAKE YOU THINK!. Bugs, thins that don't make sense in the storyline, bad combat, etc. etc. Why are you getting so offended at him asking what flaws the game has? For god's sake you guys are comeing off as the Hypemachine, only for a game that noone but fanboys has cared about for 5 fucking years!

Edit:Oh, and let me remind you, Planescape is not the first game to do things like that, at all, it in and of itself is a 'cover', to use the analogy you all where useing. It may be the first video game to do some of this, but calling it original for that is like calling a movie based of a classical play original, becouse it's the first movie to do that classic plotline, even though it's been a play for a long time. To translate, since the music analogy was starting to confuse me anyway, what happened in Planescape has been done better in actuil D&D games with a competant DM.

/rant

Appolgies for the rant, but I can only handle so much stupidity in one day, esspecially when someone throws around said stupidity right after I attempted to ensure there was less arguements.

[CJ1145]

Coincidentally, do you guys find Mad World to be better when performed by Tears for Fears, or Gary Jules?

[lordnincompoop]

What is this thread even about anymore.

[KaguroDraven]

It was about Mass Effect three, then someone started screaming how it sucks, then they brought up planescape, said screamer left, then people continued to argue about planescape like the ADD twatdonkies the internet is filled with.

Now, to try and get back on topic before I somehow get pulled into the argument again and have a blood vessel pop from breaking my neutrality twice in a few hours. Am I the only one hopeing the Turian homeworld comes under attack, and one of the speech options to the council(if they live) is to throw the turian councilors "Reapers" thing right back in his face?

[lordnincompoop]

Okay, here's hoping all that confict has boiled away now.

TBH I never felt particularly angry about the whole air quotes thing, because it was perfectly reasonable (though rather stubborn of them, yes, and their attitude could need a change) to not believe in the Reapers then. They had no evidence of their existence at all, since almost all of the Reaper-related artifacts had conveniently disappeared, and the huge honking Sovereign thing exploded.

[KaguroDraven]

You're given a few small hints in ME2 that they DO know the reapers are comeing and are prepareing for it actuilly. But besides that I know his reaction was reasonable, but the Turian pissed me off enough with his incessent rageing at what you did in ME1, unless you killed human colonists then he was happyish, and that just made me want to throw that line back in his face. Mind I would still try to save the Turians, no use letting them all die becouse their councilor is a prick, but I do want to just throw that back at him.