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[Jreengus]

What I found strange about ME2's new clips was the way that in a few years every single gun ever using the old method has apparently been destroyed or something. You'd expect the old models to be standard issue alongside newer models, that way you can guarantee that you never have a weapon that isn't loaded. Fire the new one and then use the old one whilst reloading. Also gameplay wise I disliked the fact that I could no longer sit miles away sniping everyone since I need at least one clip per enemy but get less than one back per enemy killed.

[Shade-o]

Yes, I don't quite get that either. Old guns could be fired for days until they simply ran out of particles to shoot. New ones last a few seconds, depending on the weapon. Of course, that also demands why a space marine can only carry a few extra thermal clips when they're smaller than the palm of your hand. Or why they simply get discarded when they're more precious and rare than life itself.

Really, the best way to introduce this new technology (which the Geth had, but apparently didn't use last game) would be to let your gun cool down ala ME1, or instantly cool it by replacing the thermal sink. Have only a few spare clips per mission, plus whatever you might scavenge. It wouldn't make a fight impossible, but definitely make parts easier or harder depending on how you spend your clips.

ME3 feature, perhaps?

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I believe that's what the initial official mention of "thermal clips" said, or implied at least, they were going to be. Then it got changed into weird universal ammo shit.

[Shade-o]

In Mass Effect 2, the Collectors were running around the Terminus systems abducting humans to turn into a Reaper. Fair enough. It turns out that they only had enough Human Paste to grow a small, baby Reaper. At the time we saw it, it was only frigate-sized at most, and the only way to gather more Goo was to attack larger human colonies.

Could a Collector Cruiser even attempt that? They were doing fine against undefended independent colonies, but what about planets with substantial Systems Alliance defence systems, orbital fleets? Note that there wasn't anything particularly special about this ship, all it had going for it was its ability to see through heat stealth and being bigger than the Normandy. The instant it attacks a planet actually administered by the Alliance, it has to deal with a very angry Navy. Even assuming it gets away, every other planet will be guarded and just waiting for it to come back.

There's no way that it could work. Unless the Collectors hired a fleet of pirates to act as support and diversions for them... Hmm... But still, there's no indication given of how they intended to carry out their mad plan.

[CJ1145]

In Mass Effect 2, the Collectors were running around the Terminus systems abducting humans to turn into a Reaper. Fair enough. It turns out that they only had enough Human Paste to grow a small, baby Reaper. At the time we saw it, it was only frigate-sized at most, and the only way to gather more Goo was to attack larger human colonies.

Could a Collector Cruiser even attempt that? They were doing fine against undefended independent colonies, but what about planets with substantial Systems Alliance defence systems, orbital fleets? Note that there wasn't anything particularly special about this ship, all it had going for it was its ability to see through heat stealth and being bigger than the Normandy. The instant it attacks a planet actually administered by the Alliance, it has to deal with a very angry Navy. Even assuming it gets away, every other planet will be guarded and just waiting for it to come back.

There's no way that it could work. Unless the Collectors hired a fleet of pirates to act as support and diversions for them... Hmm... But still, there's no indication given of how they intended to carry out their mad plan.

You seem to forget just how massively overpowered the Collector ship was. It tore through the Normandy like tissue paper, and it was one of the most advanced ships in the Alliance fleet. The only reason the Normandy stood a chance in round two is by upgrading to the absolute best armor, weaponry, and shielding money could buy, and then upgrading even further, with the help of some of the best minds in the universe. It's easy to see that most Alliance ships, even the big ones, couldn't match that sort of firepower, nor did they have the maneuverability to dodge the Collector ships's attacks. They would have been screwed, and it's been hinted at in-game that there are more Collector ships, since they talk about it's this one in particular is following you.

Anyway, this thread has shocked me, as I discovered people that actually didn't like Mass Effect and its sequel. Oh, and some retard going on about Reapers ripping off War of the Worlds by landing on a planet. Derp-de derp derp derp.

[The Worst Gamer]

Anyway, this thread has shocked me, as I discovered people that actually didn't like Mass Effect and its sequel.

Personally, I didn't like it because the setting is tasteless and bland (seriously, it's like every single sci-fi cliche ever with a space opera stoyline) and has no real over-arching themes. It just throws cliche after cliche after cliche (inb4 someone says, "They're not cliches, they're tropes" which is wholly incorrect because they're devoid of any real meaning or reasoning) into the game and hopes that something nice will come out of it.

If Bioware's writers could get their heads out of their bumholes and try to write something original, then I might have a little bit of respect for them. As it stands, with both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I don't think I'm going to buy any of their trite cliche-fests again.

[CJ1145]

Personally, I didn't like it because the setting is tasteless and bland (seriously, it's like every single sci-fi cliche ever with a space opera stoyline) and has no real over-arching themes. It just throws cliche after cliche after cliche (inb4 someone says, "They're not cliches, they're tropes" which is wholly incorrect because they're devoid of any real meaning or reasoning) into the game and hopes that something nice will come out of it.

If Bioware's writers could get their heads out of their bumholes and try to write something original, then I might have a little bit of respect for them. As it stands, with both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I don't think I'm going to buy any of their trite cliche-fests again.

  Wow... I... didn't realize someone could misunderstand the purpose of a game so thoroughly. Mass Effect was stated from the beginning to be an homage to all those cliches and tropes that you speak of. It creates one of those "idyllic" space civilizations people loved back in the day, and then turned right on its ear. Every "cliche" you speak of is a time bomb waiting to happen. They can be subverted, inverted, averted, and probably a dozen other "erteds" I can't think of. You've got the perfect space elves that everybody loves, except they're regarded as little more than psychic prostitutes by many, and the game shows their haughty attitude is anything but deserved. You've got the proud warrior race guys that are supposedly the perfect peacekeepers... until you find out that many of them are criminals, and one of your closest friends of that race is a complete renegade who despises the rules he has to follow as a peacekeeper. Hell, even the main antagonist of the first game is one of them. Then there's the super-geniuses who are only how they are due to their extremely short lifespans, the the brute monsters who turn out to be an oppressed race denied by science the chance to get back on its feet, the fact that the evil monsters that nearly wiped out the galaxy were just some peace-loving bugs caught up in a war they didn't want, and a whole mess of other things.

[The Worst Gamer]

Wow... I... didn't realize someone could misunderstand the purpose of a game so thoroughly. Mass Effect was stated from the beginning to be an homage to all those cliches and tropes that you speak of. It creates one of those "idyllic" space civilizations people loved back in the day, and then turned right on its ear. Every "cliche" you speak of is a time bomb waiting to happen. They can be subverted, inverted, averted, and probably a dozen other "erteds" I can't think of. You've got the perfect space elves that everybody loves, except they're regarded as little more than psychic prostitutes by many, and the game shows their haughty attitude is anything but deserved. You've got the proud warrior race guys that are supposedly the perfect peacekeepers... until you find out that many of them are criminals, and one of your closest friends of that race is a complete renegade who despises the rules he has to follow as a peacekeeper. Hell, even the main antagonist of the first game is one of them. Then there's the super-geniuses who are only how they are due to their extremely short lifespans, the the brute monsters who turn out to be an oppressed race denied by science the chance to get back on its feet, the fact that the evil monsters that nearly wiped out the galaxy were just some peace-loving bugs caught up in a war they didn't want, and a whole mess of other things.

It's nice and convenient how it's supposedly a homage and a subversion of all that and yet somehow still completely manages to do what every other science fiction universe has been doing for the past few decades.

See, Planescape was a subversion and a homage to the concept of RPGs and adventuring as a whole. It was amusing, referential and subversive in it's goals and yet still managed to be a completely unique and original game experience. You can see the same elements in Arcanum, as it takes the typical "technology versus magic" (in which technology is evil for some reason) concepts and turns them completely upside down with it being more of a cultural war than anything else. Fallout was a homage to the concept of a nuclear apocalypse and all the trite stories of the 50s and 60s that manages to stand up on it's own two feet whilst being a complete deconstruction of all those concepts.

You have to actually change key elements in order to be able to use the "Well, it's a homage, not a rip off!" excuse. Bioware does this all the time, and it's quite honestly hilarious.

I know you're not going to listen to me (yet another BioWare fanboy falling to the marketting machine), but all this is true. No "Hero's Journey" or "homage to other stories" or anything like that will change the fact that BioWare's writers are pretty hacky and Black Isle always had the superior story writers.

[Shade-o]

Are you sure that the imbalance was caused the Collector ship being ludicrously overpowered, and not that it is a fully fledged battleship that dwarfs the tiny stealth frigate? It took a lot of hits to kill the SR1, and gets outright destroyed by the SR2 with or without upgrades. I have nothing against the Collectors, but their ship is terrible.

Seriously, check the scale between the two. The Normandy looks like a fly buzzing around a cow.

[Shade-o]

Also, Planescape: Torment is awesome.

[Ephemeriis]

I kind of got the idea in ME2 that the Collectors hadn't really gone full-scale yet.

There were indications that they'd sampled other species to see if they could build Reapers out of them.  It looks like Humans were deemed the most viable for Reaper construction.  It seemed to me like they were still doing testing though...  Harvesting fringe colonies that nobody would miss, and attempting to build a Reaper from Humans to see if it would actually work.  It didn't sound like they'd actually decided to harvest Humans in large numbers and build a whole Reaper fleet.  It sounded like they weren't quite sure it'd work yet.

And then there's the whole Shepard thing...  It's obvious that Shepard made an impression on the Reapers.  S/He managed to single-handedly defeat Sovereign - something that was supposed to be impossible.  The Reapers are supposed to be the pinacle of life.  They're supposed to be better than all these simple organics.  They're supposed to be eternal...  And one little human managed to kill one off.

It's pretty apparent that Harbinger has taken a special interest in Shepard.  I'm not sure if Harbinger actually wants Shepard dead...  Or if it wants a sample...  It seems to vary from one encounter to the next.  But it's fairly clear that Harbinger considers Shepard a real threat.

It seems to me that if the Collectors/Harbinger were convinced that they could build a Reaper out of Humans...  And if they thought Shepard was gone...  They would've pretty much destroyed every Human planet out there.

It looks like the Collector ships are more powerful than anything else in the galaxy.  And they've got a whole fleet of them.  And the other species out there don't seem too interested in helping out with a "purely Human" problem...  So the Humans would've likely been on their own.  And slaughtered.

[Shade-o]

But there was only the one Collector ship, and it got destroyed in straight-up combat by a stealth frigate. If anything it appears to be inferior to a regular Alliance Cruiser.

[Lightning4]

Well, you do have to remember that the Normandy is equipped with a Reaper weapon. That same weapon that tore through Alliance ships like tissue paper in the battle for the Citadel.

Although I see no reason for the Systems Alliance to not have them now either, even though the Turians reverse engineered it. You could probably handwave it away somehow, like cost, energy problems, heat problems, so on and so on. For all we know, the Normandy's version might've only been able to fire a few times before it catastrophically melts down or something.

That stealth frigate is effectively the best ship in the universe when it comes to technology though.

[Pillow_Killer]

But there was only the one Collector ship, and it got destroyed in straight-up combat by a stealth frigate. If anything it appears to be inferior to a regular Alliance Cruiser.

Exept in ME1 we can see a big fleet pounding at a SINGLE reaper ineffectively, and have the normandy dish out the damage that destroyed it in one shot. I guess the missle was loaded with a Shepard ball or something.

[Ephemeriis]

Obviously it all comes down to what's most effective from a plot/storyline/gameplay perspective.

If a ship needs to be indestructible, it will be.

If a ship needs to be destroyed, it will be.

But...

But there was only the one Collector ship, and it got destroyed in straight-up combat by a stealth frigate. If anything it appears to be inferior to a regular Alliance Cruiser.

The Collector ship absolutely destroyed the Normandy in the opening scene.  Sure, it took a couple shots...  But only because the Normandy was so nimble.  Instead of just standing still and getting vaporized, Joker had that ship dancing around and trying to dodge shots.  Which just prolonged the inevitable.  That Collector weapon had absolutely no trouble slicing clean through the Normandy.

I'm not sure what to classify the Normandy II as...  Is it still a stealth frigate?  It's still got the stealth thing going on, but it's much bigger.

It's got the absolute best that Cerberus can afford, which is apparently quite a bit better than what the Alliance uses.  Comments to that effect are made repeatedly.  So the new, improved, vastly superior to Alliance technology Normandy II is able to take down a single Collector ship...  But it isn't an easy fight.  And if you don't upgrade the Normandy II even further you wind up suffering some heavy losses during the fight.

And then there's those laser drone things that attack the Normandy II before you even get to the fight with the Collector ship...  They do some serious damage to the Normandy II, and they're very agile.  A larger ship, or a fleet, would have a very hard time dealing with a swarm of those.

I don't have a hard time seeing the Collectors giving the Alliance a real run for their money.