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[ECrownofFire]

Fantasy just kind of defaults to this answer for everything.

[Sordid]

Fantasy just kind of defaults to this answer for everything.

Sci-fi defaults to technobabble, which is really the same thing. Ultimately, the impossible stuff in speculative fiction exists because the author thought it was neat.

[Sensei]

For the record, the steampunk dwarf armor in Morrowind was cooler than a terminator with two miniguns. Proven fact.

really, if you go through Morrowind, I'm sure you'll find lots of things that are stupidly unrealistic and basically in there because they're cool. I don't think that being able to whack a dragon with any weapon is pushing into too stupid territory.

And we KNOW that they won't make you get particular magic weapon to fight the dragons, they have health bars like everybody else. Still lame that the player can't fly but that's another story.

[Shadowlord]

Which would take away any sense of accomplishment at having figured out a way to beat said dragons.

Oh I think Howard's live demo already did that, since he showed us two very efficient ways to do that:
1. Enter an interior cell, heal up, exit back out, chip away at the dragon's massive HP, repeat.
2. Utterly flummox the dragon's AI by hiding behind a pillar.

I'm stunned that the dragon didn't simply go "You know, that's a remarkably stupid thing to do." in both cases, and in #1 crush the building you went or light it on fire if it's flammable, and in #2 just push the pillar down on top of you (and you had better get out of the way when it starts doing it). It is a dragon, after all. If they're going to put dragons in the game, they should at least make them not be monumentally stupid.

[thatkid]

Of course it's always possible that instead of relying on the player to come up with a strategy for fighting and winning against dragons, they'll make you run away and go on a quest to find something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Swords_of_Power#Dragonslicer

Which would take away any sense of accomplishment at having figured out a way to beat said dragons.

MFW someone else has read that series.

[Vattic]

Just because dragons are arguably unrealistic doesn't mean we should forget about realism when combating them. Having combat against them be mostly realistic would help to make them fit and seem more realistic. From a realistic perspective no other weapon besides ranged ones make more sense when fighting large beasts than the spear. Swords were designed for killing people and are the handguns of their day. But the main reason I'm disappointed not to see spears in game is that they've made a fairly big point about combat improvements.

Fake edit: Having thought about it some more I realise that while it would have been immersive to force those fighting dragons to plan ahead and use suitable equipment for the job it simply wouldn't work in this game. Dragons attacking you sounds like it's going to be commonplace and not being able to fight back unless you've trained using the right weapons would be irritating for many. Ultimately this is down to how they designed the game. I would still like spears because I think they're cool (rule of cool?) and ideally they'd give the same benefits as real spears but I can understand why even semi-realistic combat wouldn't fit their vision for the game.

On the topic of combat I'm also sorry not to see horseback combat as that would have been awesome. Even something as simple as that from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess would have been nice.

For those who didn't see it, new link to the video.

Thanks for posting that.

Awkward console oriented menus.

I've realised my last few posts in here have been quite bitter. I think I will enjoy the game for the most part and more so after modding. It doesn't look like Bethesda are aiming to make the kind of RPG I'm looking for on the whole. It's close in some ways but distant in others.

[Virtz]

For the record, the steampunk dwarf armor in Morrowind was cooler than a terminator with two miniguns. Proven fact.

really, if you go through Morrowind, I'm sure you'll find lots of things that are stupidly unrealistic and basically in there because they're cool. I don't think that being able to whack a dragon with any weapon is pushing into too stupid territory.

When someone uses the word "cool" as a means of characterizing something, I associate it with what's considered awesome by modern pop-culture. As far as I'm concerned, there's more things in Morrowind that were unique and interesting rather than "cool". I doubt most people would look at long dead mezopotamian-looking elves and their clunky, rusty machinery and think "cool!". I know I think the mezopotamian get-up looks kinda silly, but I also think it gives a better effect than if they wore full plate armour including 20 kilogram pauldrons because that's what's "cool".

And it ain't about being able to whack a dragon with anything, it's about not having access to the weapons that'd be seemingly most suitable for fighting something bigger because apparently they're perceived as not "cool" enough whereas dual-wielding is apparently "the shit" right now.

Also, for another example of where strictly following the "rule of cool" fails hard, see The Force Unleashed. Or the Star Wars prequels even.

[Shadowlord]

Swords were designed for killing people and are the handguns of their day.

Methinks crossbows would be the handguns of their day, not swords. Swords were a nobleman's armament, and certainly not a ranged weapon.

[Duke 2.0]

Swords were designed for killing people and are the handguns of their day.

Methinks crossbows would be the handguns of their day, not swords. Swords were a nobleman's armament, and certainly not a ranged weapon.

Even crossbows were kinda expensive to make. Depending on the region of the world longbows and farming equipment were the handguns of their day.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

Well not to get picky but Longbows were very expensive to make and maintain. Crossbows were so popular because they involved little to notraining, were very efficient and could be produce very quickly/cheaply.

[GlyphGryph]

Just because dragons are arguably unrealistic doesn't mean we should forget about realism when combating them. Having combat against them be mostly realistic would help to make them fit and seem more realistic. From a realistic perspective no other weapon besides ranged ones make more sense when fighting large beasts than the spear. Swords were designed for killing people and are the handguns of their day. But the main reason I'm disappointed not to see spears in game is that they've made a fairly big point about combat improvements.

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. When you're fighting a dragon, you're not going to use a spear. The range advantage is ALREADY gone - the spear isn't going to get it back. And dragons aren't like horses - they won't conveniently impale themselves for you.  What you want is a short powerful weapon that allows you to launch several strikes with a chance of penetrating their armor, and pray that you can get inside their range and stay there. Fighting at range against someone with a range advantage is stupid - all you're doing is keeping yourself closer to THEIR optimal range, while giving them the option of continuing to sit well outside yours.

What you want to fight a dragon is an axe.

Spoiler: And, with the rule of cool... (click to show/hide)

A cannon to launch yourself from so that you can close range before it kills you.
And maybe some sort of magical stickyness...

(Or, if you DO want the range advantage, javelins or bows. Because spears won't cut it here, and will probably make it worse.)

[Dsarker]

Swords were designed for killing people and are the handguns of their day.

Methinks crossbows would be the handguns of their day, not swords. Swords were a nobleman's armament, and certainly not a ranged weapon.

Even crossbows were kinda expensive to make. Depending on the region of the world longbows and farming equipment were the handguns of their day.

No. Crossbows were the handguns. Relatively cheap, very powerful, and anyone can use them.

[Virtz]

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. When you're fighting a dragon, you're not going to use a spear. The range advantage is ALREADY gone - the spear isn't going to get it back. And dragons aren't like horses - they won't conveniently impale themselves for you.  What you want is a short powerful weapon that allows you to launch several strikes with a chance of penetrating their armor, and pray that you can get inside their range and stay there. Fighting at range against someone with a range advantage is stupid - all you're doing is keeping yourself closer to THEIR optimal range, while giving them the option of continuing to sit well outside yours.

What you want to fight a dragon is an axe.

And a cannon to launch yourself from so that you can close range before it kills you.

And maybe some sort of magical stickyness...

(Or, if you DO want the range advantage, javelins or bows. Because spears won't cut it here, and will probably make it worse.)

There's no such thing as too close a range to fight at for something unarmed. That'd just be risking getting into a grapple against something much stronger. You're also forgetting that spears can be really effing long and still somehow usable, so you could fight a dragon beyond its melee range.

And spears weren't useful just because horses would impale themselves onto them. Although here you're assuming that dragons would never charge at you for some reason. And that you couldn't possibly use it on horseback like a lance. They were also handy when trying to kill the horse rider himself (who often had a spear to better reach you).

Although admittedly, a heavy crossbow would be even more preferable, as those could pierce plate armour in their day.

[Vattic]

Swords were designed for killing people and are the handguns of their day.

Methinks crossbows would be the handguns of their day, not swords. Swords were a nobleman's armament, and certainly not a ranged weapon.

I meant in that they were designed as man killing tools first and foremost not in their method of killing. A crossbow is a perfectly decent hunting weapon from what I gather where as you'd not want to use a sword.

Working backwards through your post I'll start by pointing out that javelins are a type of spear. When I said spear I really meant pole-weapon(think Morrowind) but I should have been clearer.

I wasn't thinking of horses. I suppose I might be unfairly associating spears with fighting beasts larger than a man because of their advantage in hunting large game, perhaps it wouldn't be so advantageous against dragons, however, a spear in skilled hands could launch several strikes with a chance of penetrating armour. It could arguably penetrate deeper than a sword and depending on the type of spear more force could be marshalled onto a smaller point. I stand by it being a decent choice and at least better than a sword.

Axes are a possibility but you've mentioned speed being important and it's a valid concern.

I wonder if we'll be able to punch them to death?

[Duke 2.0]

I wonder if we'll be able to punch them to death?

There is allegedly no hand to hand, but they could sneak some weird thing in.

 And I will mod it in so I can punch a dragon to death.