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[Sensei]

Hmm, not digging the inventory system for weapon/spell selection. At least it pauses, so it's better than the quick select wheel in Oblivion, but I hope there's a better PC dedicated UI or at least a way to filter items out of that list so you don't have to scroll past Rusty Iron Dagger every time.

Looks like you can probably wield a spell and block with a shield, which is a big plus though.

[Sordid]

That's what the favorites system is supposedly for.

Watching the video again, I've finally been able to put my finger on what's bothering me about that dragon. It moves too fast! Watch that SotC video I posted earlier, and look at others as well. The colossi move slowly, ponderously, sending out tremors with each step. It's a crucial aspect that really makes them feel big. The dragon, on the other hand, goes from sitting still on a perch into full speed flight in less than a second, then turns around on a dime without even banking, let alone flapping its wings. It's all very jittery and waaaay to fast for a beast that big.

[Shadowlord]

And some of the cantons were actually made in a way that would allow holding off an army, levitation or not.

Some of the Imperial forts were more traditional and had gates that were never locked, I think, but then they had like a dozen archers that'd skewer any mage once he lost the invisibility. Then he'd be boned and move slow as shit with levitation.

Besides, Smaug was killed with an arrow, and Glaurung with a sword. There's nothing traditional about fighting dragons with spears. >:]

It ain't about tradition, it's about practicality. If something's bigger, it's got greater reach by default. You'd want to minimize that difference by having a weapon with greater reach.

The problem with a spear is that it's so long and fragile that a dragon could probably just grab it and snap it in two while you're trying to poke him with it.

As for archers and mages, with shield spells, sanctuary, and/or resist normal weapons, a mage could be highly resistant or nearly immune to certain types of damage. With 100% resist normal weapons a mage would be immune to iron and steel arrows from unenchanted bows, or other non-magic weapons (which obviously wouldn't bother archers with magic bows or better than steel arrows). With shield maxing out the mage's armor rating (instead of using resist normal weapons), it was possible to block most non-magical damage. Fighting trolls and ogrims at point-blank range and taking their punches: Entirely possible, and what I did for fun after making an enchanted Shield suit in Oblivion. You'd probably have to drop a dragon on the mage to kill them at that point.

[anzki4]

The problem with a spear is that it's so long and fragile that a dragon could probably just grab it and snap it in two while you're trying to poke him with it.

If dragons can break your spear, they can break your sword too.

[Virtz]

The problem with a spear is that it's so long and fragile that a dragon could probably just grab it and snap it in two while you're trying to poke him with it.

If someone grabs your spear, then you have failed at using it right. And if he'd be able to grab your spear, then he'd be able to grab you when wielding anything else. I'd rather have the spear snapped than myself.

[Duke 2.0]

 If dragons exist then the rule of cool is firmly in effect. You are already deep into usual tactics and science being violated for the purpose of cool, disagreements on realism just gets silly at this point. Whatever is cool with go in, whatever features are fun will go in.

[Sordid]

The problem with a spear is that it's so long and fragile that a dragon could probably just grab it and snap it in two while you're trying to poke him with it.

I'd say that realistically, if you fight a dragon that big toe-to-toe, you're going to lose no matter what melee weapon you use. As Duke said, dragons and everything in any way associated with them run on high-octane rule of cool.

[Virtz]

If dragons exist then the rule of cool is firmly in effect. You are already deep into usual tactics and science being violated for the purpose of cool, disagreements on realism just gets silly at this point. Whatever is cool with go in, whatever features are fun will go in.

No. Just because it's fantasy with dragons doesn't mean it has to go full derp. Justifying things via rule of cool is a good way of ending up with a pile of unintentionally funny crap like Fallout 3.

[Sordid]

No. Just because it's fantasy with dragons doesn't mean it has to go full derp. Justifying things via rule of cool is a good way of ending up with a pile of unintentionally funny crap like Fallout 3.

Well, with what else do you justify the very existence of an enormous reptile that breathes fire and is capable of flight in blatant violation of the laws of physics?

[Sensei]

I don't think a rocket launcher that can kill people with teddy bears is unintentionally funny.

Besides, when have the elder scrolls ever simulated combat in that regard? It's not exactly some kind of tactical dragon combat simulator.

[Sordid]

I don't think a rocket launcher that can kill people with teddy bears is unintentionally funny.

Yeah, there's that, too. The Elder Scrolls 'verse takes itself a lot more seriously than the Fallout one does.

[Shadowlord]

Of course it's always possible that instead of relying on the player to come up with a strategy for fighting and winning against dragons, they'll make you run away and go on a quest to find something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Swords_of_Power#Dragonslicer

Which would take away any sense of accomplishment at having figured out a way to beat said dragons.

[Sordid]

Which would take away any sense of accomplishment at having figured out a way to beat said dragons.

Oh I think Howard's live demo already did that, since he showed us two very efficient ways to do that:
1. Enter an interior cell, heal up, exit back out, chip away at the dragon's massive HP, repeat.
2. Utterly flummox the dragon's AI by hiding behind a pillar.

[Virtz]

No. Just because it's fantasy with dragons doesn't mean it has to go full derp. Justifying things via rule of cool is a good way of ending up with a pile of unintentionally funny crap like Fallout 3.

Well, with what else do you justify the very existence of an enormous reptile that breathes fire and is capable of flight in blatant violation of the laws of physics?

So all fiction follows the rule of cool now? Dragons stem from folklore and mythology. Not someone's brain storm on what's cooler than a terminator with two miniguns.

I don't think a rocket launcher that can kill people with teddy bears is unintentionally funny.

You're right, it ain't funny at all.

Besides, when have the elder scrolls ever simulated combat in that regard? It's not exactly some kind of tactical dragon combat simulator.

It wasn't action focused previously either. If you want to have action game combat, then it better be as good as possible. Cause it's no longer delivering on the RPG aspects.

[Sordid]

So all fiction follows the rule of cool now? Dragons stem from folklore and mythology. Not someone's brain storm on what's cooler than a terminator with two miniguns.

Not all fiction, just fiction that deals with things that are physically impossible. I don't see that it makes any difference where the concept originated, what I'm asking is how do you justify their existence within the game. You said putting things in just because they're cool is not a sound design strategy, and yet the dragons are there for no reason that I can see other than that they are (widely considered to be) cool.