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[Duke 2.0]

 I was just joking, there are no plans by Bethesda to add them again. Which is a shame, they seemed to be more honorable Samurai than goth assassins lurking in the shadows.

 Its also sanctioned by the empire and hates the spinoff faction that split from them, the Dark Brotherhood. It could work beautifully.

[Vattic]

I dunno, when it comes down to crunch time those legs are the first to go. Any project or studio would axe them immideately. They are a sign that they didn't add everything they wanted, but its such a minor detail that all the drama over it strikes me as silly.

 Also the Dark Brotherhood wont be joinable. Instead there is a local chapter of the Morag Tong which you join to fight the Dark Brotherhood.

While I'm disappointed about the legs I agree with you here. I'm more disappointed about the lack of seamless world to city transitions but that's a hardware limitation problem. For the first time since I can remember I wish the next gen of consoles were here.

[Sordid]

Complaining the Dark Brotherhood door isn't mysterious and interesting because we already saw it in Oblivion is like complaining that there's no tension in the third Star Wars movie because we already know Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Let's critique things that are bad, instead of critiquing at random.

Well actually that is a valid criticism of Episode 3 (which stems from the fact that only a really good writer can pull off starting a story in the middle, and Lucas... isn't), but let's not get bogged down in that. There's enough prequel hate on the internet to go around, I think.

Also the Dark Brotherhood wont be joinable. Instead there is a local chapter of the Morag Tong which you join to fight the Dark Brotherhood.

Oh dear. The neat thing about them in Morrowind was how they were legal there. It was just interesting and rather original having legally binding papers for someone's life. Will they work similarly in Skyrim, or are they supposed to be covert like the Dark Brotherhood now?

They're almost certainly going to be mostly covert, Skyrim doesn't operate under Morrowind law. Maybe in the dunmer settlement they'll be able to work openly.

I wish the next gen of consoles were here.

I wish Bethsoft would make the TES series PC-exclusive. That in and of itself would solve a lot more problems than just the loading screens.

[freeformschooler]

I wish the next gen of consoles were here.

I wish Bethsoft would make the TES series PC-exclusive. That in and of itself would solve a lot more problems than just the loading screens.

I am normally all for consoles and everything, and enjoy my bro's Xbox 360, but I think you might be right here. Additionally, in a way people who buy TES series games for consoles are not getting nearly as much bang for their buck, because they lack probably the best thing about the TES series:

MODS GLORIOUS MODS

[Sensei]

It'd be neat if whatever assassin's guild you were in, you had to (or had the option to) exploit some Nord law that lets you challenge someone to a duel to go after your marks.

[Sordid]

It'd be neat if whatever assassin's guild you were in, you had to (or had the option to) exploit some Nord law that lets you challenge someone to a duel to go after your marks.

Morrowind had a neat gameplay mechanic for that. There was the Taunt action, but you needed some Speechcraft skill for that. What most people don't know is that you could get NPCs angry enough to attack you by simply persistently pestering them. Fail enough persuasion attempts and the NPCs will attack, regardless of whether you were clicking the Taunt, Admire, or Intimidate buttons.

[MorleyDev]

While I'm disappointed about the legs I agree with you here. I'm more disappointed about the lack of seamless world to city transitions but that's a hardware limitation problem. For the first time since I can remember I wish the next gen of consoles were here.

From what I've heard the legs were anatomically wrong, and no humanoid could balance like that effectively. It may have looked more bestial at first glance, but after you think about it for a second it just looks silly.

There are mods that put the cities in the wilderness Worldspace (except for the Imperial City ) and from when the mod was first released shortly after the release of Oblivion not only have most people on PCs noticed no lag at all,  but there were even reported FPS increases >.<

Of course so far the greatest Oblivion mod I've found has to be Morroblivion. It essentially is a series of steps that convert the Morrowind, Bloodmoon and Tribunal ESMs to Oblivion's format and then patches them to the point you can play (so far) the entirety of Morrowind, most of Bloodmoon and some of Tribunal in the Oblivion engine. Yes, it is awesome.

[Sergius]

FYI, animals with digitigrade legs don't have more leg joints. They're basically standing on their digits (people commonly mistake their very loooong "foot" and the "ankle" with either another length of leg and/or a backwards knee).

[Sordid]

From what I've heard the legs were anatomically wrong, and no humanoid could balance like that effectively. It may have looked more bestial at first glance, but after you think about it for a second it just looks silly.

I don't see why they couldn't, plenty of bipeds are able to walk on digitigrade legs just fine. Birds, for example. And dinosaurs. If a t-rex can balance on legs like that, I don't see why a khajiit couldn't.

So far the greatest Oblivion mod I've found has to be Morroblivion. It essentially is a series of steps that convert the Morrowind, Bloodmoon and Tribunal ESMs to Oblivion's format and then patches them to the point you can play (so far) the entirety of Morrowind, most of Bloodmoon and some of Tribunal in the Oblivion engine. Yes, it is awesome.

I've been waiting for that to get finished for years. Also, that right there's what's great about Morrowind and shit about Oblivion. "Is that a clannfear? Oh my god! What the...? I'm level two!" And then it takes half his health off with one bite. And murders him repeatedly. Classic moment there, innit?

[Duke 2.0]

From what I've heard the legs were anatomically wrong, and no humanoid could balance like that effectively. It may have looked more bestial at first glance, but after you think about it for a second it just looks silly.

I don't see why they couldn't, plenty of bipeds are able to walk on digitigrade legs just fine. Birds, for example. And dinosaurs. If a t-rex can balance on legs like that, I don't see why a khajiit couldn't.

Plenty of bipeds yes, not too many humanoids though. Birds have skinny legs that would look weird on lizard and cat races, dinosaurs have the issue of having to animate complex tails for the lizard beast race. We gotta be honest with ourselves here, the beast races in Morrowind looked awkward as hell. It sorta worked with the technical limitations of the animations and stuff, putting it on par with the rest of the graphics in the game. When you increase the graphics and add a more dynamic animation system so combat feels less weird working around those awkward legs becomes a huge problem.

[MorleyDev]

I was waiting for ages too. I think all RPG fans should know the pain of finding yourself in an encounter levels above you, builds character.

Right now Morrowind is pretty much finished and Bloodmoon too (I don't think the Raven Rock quests are patched in yet) so it's mostly just waiting on Tribunal and the odd glitch ^^ I've not noticed it crashing when running around with full LOD but my PC is notably better (and newer, and more expensive) than my older ones so it may just be a specs thing xD There's still the odd glitch, and I don't think expulsion from a guild works right but I always reloaded when I got expelled anyway. But all in all it's pretty darned sweet

[Sordid]

Plenty of bipeds yes, not too many humanoids though. Birds have skinny legs that would look weird on lizard and cat races, dinosaurs have the issue of having to animate complex tails for the lizard beast race. We gotta be honest with ourselves here, the beast races in Morrowind looked awkward as hell. It sorta worked with the technical limitations of the animations and stuff, putting it on par with the rest of the graphics in the game. When you increase the graphics and add a more dynamic animation system so combat feels less weird working around those awkward legs becomes a huge problem.

I'm not sure if I'm just reposting something from this thread or if I picked it up somewhere else, but here's a humanoid walking perfectly fine on digitigrade legs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JeJ1LimPAk
If he can walk like that on fake ones that have no muscles or tendons and no motor control, I don't think a humanoid that actually has functional legs like that would have any trouble at all.

[Duke 2.0]

 It isn't so much how feasible walking like that is so much as how awkward it looks and writing it into an animation system we don't know much about. All you see there is him waddling around without any complex movements needed to make a combat-oriented RPG good to look at. I know previous installments had awkward animations anyway, but one feature that is boasted is that animations looks better in this game and I would rather they spend time making humanoids look alright than investing a ton of resources into making specific rules for these things.

[Sordid]

Well I guess that's a judgment call that we'll have to agree to disagree about. I'd rather have less-than-stellar variety than well-made uniformity.

[Virtz]

It isn't so much how feasible walking like that is so much as how awkward it looks and writing it into an animation system we don't know much about. All you see there is him waddling around without any complex movements needed to make a combat-oriented RPG good to look at. I know previous installments had awkward animations anyway, but one feature that is boasted is that animations looks better in this game and I would rather they spend time making humanoids look alright than investing a ton of resources into making specific rules for these things.

It wouldn't look as awkward if those weren't the prosthetic equivalent of two peg legs and he had a tail for counter-balance.

You can use the excuse of some mythical resources over and over until you're left with one weapon, one spell and one character in the world. If they were able to do it with Morrowind's budget, then they could've done it with the much larger one they've got now instead of investing it on stupid shit like dual-wielding maces.