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[Virtz]

Actually I trust Bethesda a lot. They would most certainly not make a shitty game no matter what.
Graphics are mandatory things in Elder scrolls series, The second one had revolutionary graphics and so did the third one and so did the fourth one.

Daggerfall (TES2) was considered graphically dated even by 1996 standards. Oblivion was also dated by the time it came out (not to mention the horrible performance for not that special graphics). I suppose Morrowind was something graphically revolutionary, particularly due to the water effects.

I thought that was only the case for Oblivion and Arena.

Huh? Arena was the first game in the series. What was it supposed to spark a flame war against? The Terminator games?

And it's hard to talk about an Arena->Daggerfall rough transition considering they're the same for the most part. Personally I was butthurt about the Daggerfall->Morrowind transition since it abandoned a lot of the features I liked and replaced them with a lot of walking.

And either way, I don't see a flame war happening in between Oblivion and Skyrim. They both look like they're made for the action crowd above all. At most I imagine some Oblivion fans will be upset about the pre-defined spells.

[silhouette]

I miss levitation. That was a great spell, too bad it doesn't seem like its coming back in skyrim...

[Vibhor]

Actually I trust Bethesda a lot. They would most certainly not make a shitty game no matter what.
Graphics are mandatory things in Elder scrolls series, The second one had revolutionary graphics and so did the third one and so did the fourth one.

Daggerfall (TES2) was considered graphically dated even by 1996 standards. Oblivion was also dated by the time it came out (not to mention the horrible performance for not that special graphics). I suppose Morrowind was something graphically revolutionary, particularly due to the water effects.

Nope. Daggerfall had the most detailed sprite based graphics around.Considering 3D was in effect at that time, the game was quite good in the graphics department. Also, the huge view distance and the huge world to explore was also revolutionary.

[Neonivek]

I don't see a flame war happening in between Oblivion and Skyrim

I don't either. They at least copied and pasted the game.

My question is if Skyrim will REALLY innovate the elder scrolls series.

[Vibhor]

I don't see a flame war happening in between Oblivion and Skyrim

I don't either. They at least copied and pasted the game.

My question is if Skyrim will REALLY innovate the elder scrolls series.

Every game in the series does.
You don't see a flamewar because nobody has seen the game but to an oblivion fan I am pretty sure it would not be the same as the game is trying to be more morrowind than oblivion.
And Oblivion was just an upgraded version of daggerfall. Just think about it for a moment.

[Sordid]

Daggerfall had the most detailed sprite based graphics around.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, for one thing. Also sprites were obsolete by that time. Bethsoft released Terminator: Future Shock a year earlier and that had polygon enemies (and actually ran on the same exact engine).

Also, the huge view distance and the huge world to explore was also revolutionary.

The view distance wasn't that great. You can kinda tell that some of the town layouts were designed with even farther view distance in mind, like you have this long main street leading up to a majestic palace, but you can't actually see the palace until you walk through the gate and some gardens, by which point you can't see the street anymore.

[Vibhor]

Daggerfall had the most detailed sprite based graphics around.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, for one thing. Also sprites were obsolete by that time. Bethsoft released Terminator: Future Shock a year earlier and that had polygon enemies (and actually ran on the same exact engine).

Also, the huge view distance and the huge world to explore was also revolutionary.

The view distance wasn't that great. You can kinda tell that some of the town layouts were designed with even farther view distance in mind, like you have this long main street leading up to a majestic palace, but you can't actually see the palace until you walk through the gate and some gardens, by which point you can't see the street anymore.

The levels were randomly generated. Yes even the major towns were randomly generated.
Nothing was static thus this nullifies your point of the town layout being this and that.
You know if the game had gone more advanced in terms of technology then the game would have been the "Trespasser" of that time?

[Sordid]

The levels were randomly generated. Yes even the major towns were randomly generated.
Nothing was static thus this nullifies your point of the town layout being this and that.

Wrong. Have you actually played the damn game or are you just parroting something you've read somewhere?

You know if the game had gone more advanced in terms of technology then the game would have been the "Trespasser" of that time?

You mean to say it wasn't the Trespasser of its day? Because from where I'm sitting, it sure does look that way.
Also, I absolutely loved Trespasser, especially the arm.

[Virtz]

Actually I trust Bethesda a lot. They would most certainly not make a shitty game no matter what.
Graphics are mandatory things in Elder scrolls series, The second one had revolutionary graphics and so did the third one and so did the fourth one.

Daggerfall (TES2) was considered graphically dated even by 1996 standards. Oblivion was also dated by the time it came out (not to mention the horrible performance for not that special graphics). I suppose Morrowind was something graphically revolutionary, particularly due to the water effects.

Nope. Daggerfall had the most detailed sprite based graphics around.Considering 3D was in effect at that time, the game was quite good in the graphics department. Also, the huge view distance and the huge world to explore was also revolutionary.

For a look at revolutionary graphics at the time (1996), see Terra Nova, Chasm or Quake. None of those used plain sprites anymore. Closest was Terra Nova which had characters composed of multiple sprites (a seperate sprite for each limb), making the animations look smoother and more dynamic. And then you've got Chasm and Quake, where there weren't any sprites at all anymore. And as far as view distance goes, Terra Nova had farther view distance.

I would say it was a wonder in terms of procedural generation at the time, but graphically not really.

[Vibhor]

The levels were randomly generated. Yes even the major towns were randomly generated.
Nothing was static thus this nullifies your point of the town layout being this and that.

Wrong. Have you actually played the damn game or are you just parroting something you've read somewhere?

Have you?
Try playing it again today and note the position of buildings in a town in two different games.
I have played it more than 50 times but completed none of the times.

[Ozyton]

I think it goes by a sort of preset things, like in every major town I went to it had a fountain/centerpiece of some sort surrounded by several shops and inns. They might change the location of places but for some things they have specific preset layouts that can randomly be placed.

I think Diablo2 had that, where the map was somewhat random but it always had certain important places that were always the same, just placed differently for each game.

[Sordid]

Try playing it again today and note the position of buildings in a town in two different games.

I have a better idea. You play it again and post screenshots of a town's map across different games. Do the city of Daggerfall itself, because IIRC that's where the big main street actually is.

[Vibhor]

Try playing it again today and note the position of buildings in a town in two different games.

I have a better idea. You play it again and post screenshots of a town's map across different games. Do the city of Daggerfall itself, because IIRC that's where the big main street actually is.

Alas I cannot because my system does not runs Dosbox very well (hence the Xcom issues) and I do not know that DaggerXL provides the original experience.
Also, why should I be the one to play it? I am god damn sure that everything is just randomly thrown here and there in the game. Heck I even saw a castle right next to the entrance to a town with nothing on the other side.

[Moddan]

I happen to play Daggerfall currently with two characters. I made screenshots of the SW corner of daggerfall with both chars and they are identical. I do not know if that is also the case for two different installations.

The small towns and locations are randomised though and different for both characters.

[Sergius]

The levels were randomly generated. Yes even the major towns were randomly generated.
Nothing was static thus this nullifies your point of the town layout being this and that.

Wrong. Have you actually played the damn game or are you just parroting something you've read somewhere?

They were randomly generated in the sense that it used a random number generator to build all dungeons and towns, but they were static in the sense that each town and dungeon always used the same random seed thus it looked exactly the same every time you played, and quite likely there were some variables set by hand (like "this town has a wall = true", or "this town has a castle in the northeast corner = true"). This is what is called "procedural".

HOWEVER, towns were a product of sort of map "chunks", like for example there were a few variants of a market square. Every single building wasn't placed randomly in the grid. The whole gardens leading from the street to the medieval castle was almost definitely made by hand as a whole thing. It was more like a template with random chances of each chunk existing in a certain predefined configuration.