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Author Topic: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim  (Read 265801 times)

poca

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1575 on: February 15, 2011, 12:21:28 pm »

I was going to make some of the same points about gunpowder that scriver is now making for the moonbase idea.

It could be that the universe is rather more normal than books seem to think.

One should recall that it is a repeatable experiment to pull minions out of Oblivion and then watch as they disappear without leaving a corpse. One can also shift oneself both into and out of Oblivion. When you talk to gods, they answer. Final point: Unicorns:D

There is no reason the scientific method, applied to Nirn, must find anything familiar like the periodic table of elements, Newtonian mechanics, Kepler's orbits, or Darwin's evolution. If you have only read the lore under the assumption the people who wrote it would eventually be proved wrong by science then you have a chance to go back and read the lore as if they actually got it mostly correct.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/cosmology
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Secunda
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Masser
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Lunar_Lorkhan



EDIT: Now for a completely unrelated nitpick that doesn't belong in this post and I would take out of this post if it weren't quoted everywhere already.


Now, the moons do seem to waste away, but perhaps some stars are actually between the planet and the moons?

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.  If there are stars between a planet and a moon then you're already so unbelievable that we are now in sci-fi B-movie from failing physics forever.  :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailPhysicsForever
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 01:22:19 pm by poca »
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G-Flex

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1576 on: February 15, 2011, 12:24:24 pm »

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.  If there are stars between a planet and a moon then you're already so unbelievable that we are now in sci-fi B-movie from failing physics forever.  :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailPhysicsForever

Uh... stars in The Elder Scrolls are emphatically not the same thing as stars in the real world.
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Sordid

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1577 on: February 15, 2011, 12:38:15 pm »

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.

Wow, so 99.86% = 100%? That's new. Received your Nobel Prize in maths for this stunning discovery yet?
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Omegastick

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1578 on: February 15, 2011, 12:41:32 pm »

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.  If there are stars between a planet and a moon then you're already so unbelievable that we are now in sci-fi B-movie from failing physics forever.  :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailPhysicsForever

Uh... stars in The Elder Scrolls are emphatically not the same thing as stars in the real world.

Yeah, they are actually holes in reality, and the biggest one is the sun.

Also, upon studying the lore on TES cosmology I have noticed a section that I skipped entirely before, space itself. What we know as space is actually Oblivion, and as usual is a mere illusion due to the mortal mind failing horribly.

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.

Wow, so 99.86% = 100%? That's new. Received your Nobel Prize in maths for this stunning discovery yet?

I think that his point is that there really isn't room for another star.
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Tellemurius

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1579 on: February 15, 2011, 12:43:04 pm »

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.

Wow, so 99.86% = 100%? That's new. Received your Nobel Prize in maths for this stunning discovery yet?
there cannot be approximately 100%, the .xx accounts for randomness that cannot be explained.

Soadreqm

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1580 on: February 15, 2011, 12:46:00 pm »

Now, the moons do seem to waste away, but perhaps some stars are actually between the planet and the moons?

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.  If there are stars between a planet and a moon then you're already so unbelievable that we are now in sci-fi B-movie from failing physics forever.  :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailPhysicsForever

Well, according to the accepted theory, the moons are not even physically connected into the space that Nirn occupies, despite being plainly visible in the sky. And stars are holes in the firmament. And the moons regularly cease to exist. I think it's safe to say that we are above and beyond failing established physics, and instead writing new physics.

Wow, so 99.86% = 100%? That's new. Received your Nobel Prize in maths for this stunning discovery yet?

As a very good approximation, yes.

π = 3 = e
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poca

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1581 on: February 15, 2011, 12:56:24 pm »

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.  If there are stars between a planet and a moon then you're already so unbelievable that we are now in sci-fi B-movie from failing physics forever.  :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailPhysicsForever

Uh... stars in The Elder Scrolls are emphatically not the same thing as stars in the real world.

Now, the moons do seem to waste away, but perhaps some stars are actually between the planet and the moons?

All (99.86%) of the mass of our solar system is our sun.  If there are stars between a planet and a moon then you're already so unbelievable that we are now in sci-fi B-movie from failing physics forever.  :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailPhysicsForever

Well, according to the accepted theory, the moons are not even physically connected into the space that Nirn occupies, despite being plainly visible in the sky. And stars are holes in the firmament. And the moons regularly cease to exist. I think it's safe to say that we are above and beyond failing established physics, and instead writing new physics.


That is what I just said in the part of my post you didn't read.  ::)
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Soadreqm

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1582 on: February 15, 2011, 01:05:22 pm »

That is what I just said in the part of my post you didn't read.  ::)

Really? Sorry. It sounded like you were saying that because the Elder Scrolls cosmology doesn't correspond to the real world, it must correspond to the in-universe books.
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poca

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1583 on: February 15, 2011, 01:17:59 pm »

That is what I just said in the part of my post you didn't read.  ::)

Really? Sorry. It sounded like you were saying that because the Elder Scrolls cosmology doesn't correspond to the real world, it must correspond to the in-universe books.

Yeah I've realized that I should have left that last little nitpick off; I've totally confused everybody with it.  :(

I honestly wanted to support the points that scriver has been making because I was going to make them when everyone was talking about gunpowder and that point is that people would do well to read the lore as if it were true because Nirn has Unicorns and Earth certainly does not.
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PTTG??

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1584 on: February 15, 2011, 02:29:05 pm »

All I'm saying is that the fact that Unicorns exist doesn't imply that every single book is correct, and more importantly that we shouldn't let a handful of books that represent the perceptions of a few wizards prevent us from inventing a story that is entertaining.

That said, I feel that at this point inventing a totally new universe is far better than shoehorning space travel into TES.

Imagine, you could have a cosmos built around a series of moons surrounding a gas giant. They could each represent a nation of sorts, giving our setting an assortment of magic and technology that leans to the space opera or even planetary romance side of the scale.

How about this: A humanlike species evolves on the earthlike moon of a gas giant. This moon is smaller than earth but denser, like all the moons of this giant, and thus has similar gravity but less surface area. This race eventually uses technology we might distantly recognize to travel between these moons and terraform them to a variety of climates; there are dozens, and they fit a variety of niches (deserts, oceans, forests, ice, swamp, fungus, crystal, etc...). All sorts of techno-gadgets exist, from guns to teleporters to spaceships to AI.

A cataclysm not only stops all contact between these planets, but also blasts every world back to the stone age; this could be the sudden appearance of magical forces or the failure of the main sources of power used by the interlunar society. Perhaps some kind of doomsday device used in war, although this would presumably lead to a certain amount of fallout, which might confuse the setting.

Over the course of, oh, ten or twenty thousand years, the various now-isolated remnants rebuild. By the time they contact one another again, they have forgotten all of the history they once had and have even divergently evolved into nearly separate species. At first, contact is solely by semaphore- flashing sunlight off large mirrors- but after many, many years, the secrets of the ancients are being recovered. Many of them are lost forever, and because many of these secrets are being rediscovered, technological progress is not linear. Archers and swordsmen board ships capable of traversing the void, and mages question demons as to the best orbital trajectory for a flight around the central giant.

Our story could be set decades after the first voidships are built, or it could begin a century after first contact, now that the various groups are intermingling, and we might find anything from a majestic port city where people from all cultures come to trade to a hidden void pirate moonlet to the central temple of a icy world's xenophobic religion, containing the manifestation of their god, the holographic avatar of a malfunctioning defense computer.

Naturally, one of these planets could have plentiful natural caverns and low ceilings, and mushrooms just bursting with brewable carbohydrates. That's only to be expected.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 02:31:48 pm by PTTG?? »
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Elu

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1585 on: February 15, 2011, 02:38:48 pm »

uhm, seems that some people gone a tad luny in this thread
...
...
*cough*
...

however, a "moon" is a natural satellite orbiting around a planet, that said, if there is a star between those two, that "moon" no longer orbit around the planet, and therefore loses it's "moon" status.

but ultimately, we're arguing about... nothing! we're trying to apply concept like the physics law to imaginary entities that don't  follow any of those, it's pontless!
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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1586 on: February 15, 2011, 02:42:12 pm »

 Ultimately we are trying to find a way to make Divayth Fyr even more of a badass.
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Omegastick

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1587 on: February 15, 2011, 02:45:03 pm »

uhm, seems that some people gone a tad luny in this thread
...
...
*cough*
...

however, a "moon" is a natural satellite orbiting around a planet, that said, if there is a star between those two, that "moon" no longer orbit around the planet, and therefore loses it's "moon" status.

but ultimately, we're arguing about... nothing! we're trying to apply concept like the physics law to imaginary entities that don't  follow any of those, it's pontless!

Spoiler:  Spoiler'd for size (click to show/hide)
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PTTG??

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1588 on: February 15, 2011, 02:53:01 pm »

YOU HAD BETTER READ THAT it took me like two hours of refinement to write it.
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Rose

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Re: Elder scrolls V: Skyrim
« Reply #1589 on: February 15, 2011, 03:04:40 pm »

All I'm saying is that the fact that Unicorns exist doesn't imply that every single book is correct, and more importantly that we shouldn't let a handful of books that represent the perceptions of a few wizards prevent us from inventing a story that is entertaining.

That said, I feel that at this point inventing a totally new universe is far better than shoehorning space travel into TES.

Imagine, you could have a cosmos built around a series of moons surrounding a gas giant. They could each represent a nation of sorts, giving our setting an assortment of magic and technology that leans to the space opera or even planetary romance side of the scale.

How about this: A humanlike species evolves on the earthlike moon of a gas giant. This moon is smaller than earth but denser, like all the moons of this giant, and thus has similar gravity but less surface area. This race eventually uses technology we might distantly recognize to travel between these moons and terraform them to a variety of climates; there are dozens, and they fit a variety of niches (deserts, oceans, forests, ice, swamp, fungus, crystal, etc...). All sorts of techno-gadgets exist, from guns to teleporters to spaceships to AI.

A cataclysm not only stops all contact between these planets, but also blasts every world back to the stone age; this could be the sudden appearance of magical forces or the failure of the main sources of power used by the interlunar society. Perhaps some kind of doomsday device used in war, although this would presumably lead to a certain amount of fallout, which might confuse the setting.

Over the course of, oh, ten or twenty thousand years, the various now-isolated remnants rebuild. By the time they contact one another again, they have forgotten all of the history they once had and have even divergently evolved into nearly separate species. At first, contact is solely by semaphore- flashing sunlight off large mirrors- but after many, many years, the secrets of the ancients are being recovered. Many of them are lost forever, and because many of these secrets are being rediscovered, technological progress is not linear. Archers and swordsmen board ships capable of traversing the void, and mages question demons as to the best orbital trajectory for a flight around the central giant.

Our story could be set decades after the first voidships are built, or it could begin a century after first contact, now that the various groups are intermingling, and we might find anything from a majestic port city where people from all cultures come to trade to a hidden void pirate moonlet to the central temple of a icy world's xenophobic religion, containing the manifestation of their god, the holographic avatar of a malfunctioning defense computer.

Naturally, one of these planets could have plentiful natural caverns and low ceilings, and mushrooms just bursting with brewable carbohydrates. That's only to be expected.

this. is so cool.
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