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[GaelicVigil]

Am I the only one that was just fine with combat being pure stat-based as it was in Morrowind?  Granted, the animations and movement was terrible, but at least Morrowind felt like a role-playing game, rather than a FPS as Oblivion did.

[kilakan]

I think a middle ground would be preferable.   So take the miss chance with lack of skill from morrowind, and apply Oblivions fighting abilities, but make it so if you are terrible with a weapon, you stumble and miss alot, and maybe even hurt yourself.

[Sordid]

God no, that was the worst thing ever. To me Morrowind (and Daggerfall) didn't feel any less like a FPS because of the miss chance, they were only more annoying.
I have only ever played two games in which melee combat was handled decently. Mount&Blade is one, which is quite excellent especially due to the presence of mounted combat. The second is an obscure game called Severance: Blade of Darkness. That wasn't an RPG at all, it was an action game with combos and everything, but the combat itself was marvelously slow-paced and tactical, with heavy emphasis on distance, reach, timing, and maneuvering around your opponents rather than button-mashing. Unfortunately, neither system has a snowball's chance in hell of being in TES5.
It is also worth noting that both of these games are 3rd person. IMO it is impossible to make a good melee combat game in 1st person due to the limited field of view.

[Buttery_Mess]

The Dwemer 'Earth Bones' are the laws of nature; in other words, their technology is based on science. It just happens that magic is tightly integrated into the laws of nature of Mundus. At least, that's the slant I took from the games.

[Sordid]

I'm not really sure about that. As the Imperial Library quotes from Morrowind:

During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones, what we call now the laws of nature, dissecting the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane.

Death of the earth bones? What's that supposed to mean? To me it sounds like they were actually able to warp the laws of nature to suit their purposes...

Their mechanists and tonal architects discovered systematic regression techniques to perform the reverse -- that is, to create the sacred from the deaths of the profane. The Dwemer had practiced generations of ritualistic 'anti-creations', which possibly contributed to their disappearance.

...by means of 'ritualistic anti-creations'. The sacred created the laws of nature by forcing its will upon the profane, and then the dwemer figured out a way of using the profane as fuel to create the sacred. Wouldn't that give them a means to force their own will upon the universe, to literally change the laws of physics?
Also, is it just me, or do the phrases 'creating the sacred from the death of the profane' and 'ritualistic anti-creation' add up to 'human (or dwemer) sacrifice'?

[Rakonas]

In terms of combat, I really dislike the whole action or fps style that's permeated through rpgs recently. I have nothing against special moves and variations between slash/stab/etc. but when the game actually requires a significant level of skill and effort to fight anything it's a major turnoff. I'm not saying I like my rpg's easy, I'm saying that I'd so much rather have combat challenge my brain than my meagre hand-eye coordination. If I wanted to play an action game, I'd be playing an action game.

[Vattic]

It is also worth noting that both of these games are 3rd person. IMO it is impossible to make a good melee combat game in 1st person due to the limited field of view.

Zeno Clash had it's moments and I enjoyed the wii boxing (doesn't count I know), though I mostly agree with your sentiment.

I'm looking forward to Skyrim but likely won't buy it on release.

[Virtz]

To me Morrowind (and Daggerfall) didn't feel any less like a FPS because of the miss chance, they were only more annoying.

So Morrowind and Daggerfall felt like FPSes to you?

Didn't to me. Oblivion on the other hand did.

[Sordid]

Hell yeah they did. Daggerfall ran on the same engine as Terminator: Future Shock (the first game to have mouselook and polygon enemies, btw) and it kinda showed, and Morrowind's combat system consisted of checking the "always use best attack" checkbox in the options, placing your cursor over the enemy, and clicking the mouse button. At least there was some variety with the different power attacks and manual blocking in Oblivion.

[Farseer]

It is also worth noting that both of these games are 3rd person. IMO it is impossible to make a good melee combat game in 1st person due to the limited field of view.

Go try Pirates, Vikings and Knights 2. I think you'll be surprised.

[Sordid]

Just looking at videos of that I can tell that's rubbish. Everyone running around like their pants are on fire, changing direction randomly, etc. That's not a good combat system, that's a first person shooter with swords.
Observe this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdP83kxT-U
That's Severance. Notice how the fight for the most part consists of the two guys circling each other? And towards the end the player dodges to the right to avoid a swipe by the enemy and immediately lunges into a counterattack. Unfortunately that's just about the only quasi-good video of it there is, since most of the noobs have no idea how to play this game right.

[Farseer]

Just looking at videos of that I can tell that's rubbish. Everyone running around like their pants are on fire, changing direction randomly, etc. That's not a good combat system, that's a first person shooter with swords.
Observe this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdP83kxT-U
That's Severance. Notice how the fight for the most part consists of the two guys circling each other? And towards the end the player dodges to the right to avoid a swipe by the enemy and immediately lunges into a counterattack. Unfortunately that's just about the only quasi-good video of it there is, since most of the noobs have no idea how to play this game right.

It's different when you play it.

I'd pay for a modern version of that. :p

[Sordid]

Eh? Looks pretty modern to me. But then to me the Source engine is still cutting edge.

[Farseer]

Eh? Looks pretty modern to me. But then to me the Source engine is still cutting edge.

I meant I'd pay for a modern version of Severance.

Trust me, have a go of PVK, I think you'll like it.

[Soadreqm]

I love Dwemer lore. Can't wait for the Elder Scrolls VI: Metal Gear, where you finally get to pilot one of those giant walking Dwemeri doomsday weapons.

During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones, what we call now the laws of nature, dissecting the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane.

Death of the earth bones? What's that supposed to mean? To me it sounds like they were actually able to warp the laws of nature to suit their purposes...

I think they were. I'm not sure on the exact source, but I think that someone in Morrowind theorized that the reason the Dwemer strongholds still have operational machinery after three thousand years of sitting around next to an active volcano is that the Dwemer could mess with the primal forces that control aging. And they did all mysteriously disappear, following an attempt to transcend to a higher plane of existence or something. Anyway, "warping the laws of nature" is basically what magic does. Nothing that special. The Dwemer were just exceedingly good at it, owing to their tendency to set up experiments to figure out how the world works.

I never had any idea what "ritualistic anti-creations" could mean. Human (elf) sacrifice is... well, possible. I never saw it that way, but it does kind of fit.