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[penguinofhonor]

Yuck, I read that you level up by raising skills. If this turns out just like Oblivion I'm going to be sad.

[Buttery_Mess]

What's the big deal with faces when you spend the whole game either in first person mode or, occasionally, staring at the back of the character's head? Customiseable body types would be a massive improvement, for the NPCs if not everything else.

I made some pretty female characters in Oblivion; a Redguard made to look persian springs to mind (hideous as a vampire thought)

[G-Flex]

Yuck, I read that you level up by raising skills. If this turns out just like Oblivion I'm going to be sad.

Also, there are fewer skills. Mysticism is out. Enchanting might be out, or might not be. All melee skills are congealed into "one-handed weapon" and "two-handed weapon" skill. Evidently, using a hand axe makes you better at using katanas and daggers, now (but doesn't make you better at using a bigger axe).

What's the big deal with faces when you spend the whole game either in first person mode or, occasionally, staring at the back of the character's head? Customiseable body types would be a massive improvement, for the NPCs if not everything else.

Yeah, not a big deal, but not a big investment either. It probably just boiled down to implementing the dev tools for the player, which already existed to make NPCs.

[Buttery_Mess]

Fewer skills than Oblivion? Oh dear God.

I don't think you can realistically handle weapons with less than seven independent weapon skills. Nine or ten, including ranged, and more beyond for exotic weapons (which seems unlikely in TES). For the sake of gameplay, I can sort of understand using less than that, but two skills? Why even bother? Might as well have a single Melee Strike skill. That makes more sense.

[G-Flex]

That's the thing about modern game development. In order to make a modern game with all the neat bells and whistles, you also need to make it accessible to damn near everyone if you want it to be profitable. It happened with Oblivion, and it seems like it's happening even more now. I'll laugh my ass off if they decide to have a "cover system" or regenerating HP or something like that. Then I'll know that things have gone too far and I can stop paying attention.

[LoSboccacc]

Yuck, I read that you level up by raising skills. If this turns out just like Oblivion I'm going to be sad.

please this was one of the best thing of oblivionmorrowind

[Sordid]

What's the big deal with faces when you spend the whole game either in first person mode or, occasionally, staring at the back of the character's head? Customiseable body types would be a massive improvement, for the NPCs if not everything else.

I made some pretty female characters in Oblivion; a Redguard made to look persian springs to mind (hideous as a vampire thought)

It's not just about the player character. In Oblivion you spend quite a lot of time talking to people, and the hideous face issue is made all the worse by Bethsoft's decision to switch to a close-up of the face of the person your're talking to for the duration of the conversation.
Also, some of us like to play in 3rd person.

Yuck, I read that you level up by raising skills. If this turns out just like Oblivion I'm going to be sad.

please this was one of the best thing of oblivion morrowind

Daggerfall.
Youngsters.

Fewer skills than Oblivion? Oh dear God.

I don't think you can realistically handle weapons with less than seven independent weapon skills. Nine or ten, including ranged, and more beyond for exotic weapons (which seems unlikely in TES). For the sake of gameplay, I can sort of understand using less than that, but two skills? Why even bother? Might as well have a single Melee Strike skill. That makes more sense.

Wait, what? Two weapon skills? Where are you getting that from?

[LoSboccacc]

oblivion already dumbed it down having blunt/blade handling everything weapon.

I don't like that, but you also have to consider that attributes are based on skill and you need to maximize them to maximize the skill. maximizing each weapon to get 100 strength is quite boring (more than, say, grind up magic)

some levelling mod based strength on the greater weapon skill and that was a small improvement, still I prefer pure skill based uncapped systems so there is not the 100 attribute fetish but you are what you are.

like in TOME, just to say one.

[RayesKotrora]

I demand spears.

[Farseer]

Mysticism is out. Enchanting might be out, or might not be. All melee skills are congealed into "one-handed weapon" and "two-handed weapon" skill. Evidently, using a hand axe makes you better at using katanas and daggers, now (but doesn't make you better at using a bigger axe).

To be honest, this makes about as much sense as "using a cutlass makes you better at using a longsword". Even within a single "group", weapons are so rapidly different that you'd need to have individual skills for each different type.

I demand spears.

Me too. To me, spears are THE dragon killing weapon.

I doubt there will be, though. Kiddies don't find spears cool enough.

[LoSboccacc]

To be honest, this makes about as much sense as "using a cutlass makes you better at using a longsword". Even within a single "group", weapons are so rapidly different that you'd need to have individual skills for each different type.

uhm, where do you get that from?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXdLyYSWKQM&feature=related

short stick is extremely similar to sword in attack patterns. the same applies for the long stick and halberd/spears

the only "swords" where the slashing pattern doesn't work are those where the main/only attack is thrusting like the estoc.

there is more difference between two handed and one anded weapons that there is from using a sword and a stick, and it's mostly due grasp limitations

the other main difference is weight distribution, and that's why axes and maces have a different attack pattern (and you should defend from those differently too)


now, I don't give a damn about this because this is a game, but at least let the basic facts straight.

different techniques adopted with various swords are different because their genesis differs, but you can use a sword with japanese tanto attack patterns and still be pretty effective, likewise you can use a stick with european longsword patterns and if you're good at it you'll keep all the timing/defence sense even when not using the longsword.

[Rex_Nex]

So uh, would it be acceptable to make another Oblivion topic? The only one I see got locked :/

[Buttery_Mess]

Personally I divide melee weapons into 2-H end-weighted (like an axe or hammer), unweighted(like a staff or spear), and balanced (like a sword), 1-H (same), and small weapons. Ranged can be divided into gun-like (crossbow, pistol), bows, and throwing. I consider the skill to be knowing how to handle the heft of any particular type of killing stick. For most settings these would be sufficient, but historically there have plenty of other weapons that are a little wierder, but which don't have transferrable skills (bolas, spear-chucking spoon (don't know the right term for it, cavemen used it), whip). Personally I'd give them specific exotic weapon skills if I were going to use them in a game.

This is going off-topic a bit, but I thought I'd mention it, because I've put considerable thought to the topic.

[Farseer]

uhm, where do you get that from?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXdLyYSWKQM&feature=related

short stick is extremely similar to sword in attack patterns. the same applies for the long stick and halberd/spears

the only "swords" where the slashing pattern doesn't work are those where the main/only attack is thrusting like the estoc.

there is more difference between two handed and one anded weapons that there is from using a sword and a stick, and it's mostly due grasp limitations

the other main difference is weight distribution, and that's why axes and maces have a different attack pattern (and you should defend from those differently too)

Considering I was making a point of comparing a "hacking sword" (cutlass) to a "use all parts of this sword" (longsword), there's a considerable difference. Using a traditional curved cutlass is more similar to using an axe than it is to a longsword. You put your weight behind your swings compared to the longsword where you stab, slash, hit them with the pommel etc.

Maybe comparing a rapier and a scimitar would be better.

It's stupid to say, "All swords are the same and can be used the same." If you tried to use a traditional katana like a longsword, the fucking thing would probably break.

[Sordid]

oblivion already dumbed it down having blunt/blade handling everything weapon.

Well there was also marksman for bows. I thought when he mentioned two weapon skills he meant melee and ranged, which is why the post made no sense to me.

spear-chucking spoon (don't know the right term for it, cavemen used it

Atlatl? Australians have a virtually identical thing named woomera.
Anyway, that seems like a fairly sensible divison of skills to me.