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[Sergius]

Well, like you've said elsewhere on this thread, people should figure out what I mean, not just what I say literally.

Not the same thing. I certainly didn't use words like "at all". It's hard to argue that by "not at all" you mean "sometimes".

"At all" doesn't refer to "none of the NPCs fight". It refers to NPCs not fighting "at all" even if you shoot them in the face.

[Farseer]

Magic is too common for anyone to think about making guns. Anyone smart enough to invent gunpowder would probably be busy thinking of new ways to make the badass magic even more badass. It would come in time, but that's alot of time and most likely guns would alter the entire face of the game, probably not for the better, as well as step on the toes of Lionhead, who have been prettymuch uncontested in that setting for a while. So it's not going to happen.

Then why would crossbows have been invented? Hell, even bows. Why would smithing be invented? Why would anything be invented when everyone can run around using magic?

Not everyone can use magic. Gunpowder would be the great leveller.

[LoSboccacc]

Not everyone can use magic.

where are you getting this from? in the elder scroll world as defined by their games almost everyone could use magic or at least alchemy.

pretty useless having a musket, when anyone can make a shield spell out of a potato and a couple of mushrooms.

[Farseer]

where are you getting this from? in the elder scroll world as defined by their games almost everyone could use magic or at least alchemy.

pretty useless having a musket, when anyone can make a shield spell out of a potato and a couple of mushrooms.

The simple fact that not everyone is using magic?

If everyone could use magic, everyone would be using magic.

[LoSboccacc]

where are you getting this from? in the elder scroll world as defined by their games almost everyone could use magic or at least alchemy.

pretty useless having a musket, when anyone can make a shield spell out of a potato and a couple of mushrooms.

The simple fact that not everyone is using magic?

If everyone could use magic, everyone would be using magic.

so, you're applying your unfounded deduction to an entire game world, just because 'you tough so'?

you know that beggars are commoners in oblivion and commoners have alchemy as class skill?

[scriver]

Not everyone can use magic.

where are you getting this from? in the elder scroll world as defined by their games almost everyone could use magic or at least alchemy.

pretty useless having a musket, when anyone can make a shield spell out of a potato and a couple of mushrooms.

Gameplay and story segregation.

The simple fact that not everyone is using magic?

If everyone could use magic, everyone would be using magic.

so, you're applying your unfounded deduction to an entire game world, just because 'you tough so'?

you know that beggars are commoners in oblivion and commoners have alchemy as class skill?

GAMEPLAY AND STORY SEGREGATION!

Jokes aside; don't use game mechanics as justification, it doesn't work that way. Whole species of creatures don't actually go extinct because you level up, and the overwhelming majority of commoners and beggars don't really know shit about alchemy. Except maybe your usual folklore herbalism-esque concoctions (I can't remember a better word for it right now, so forgive my vagueness) that may or may not work at all.

[ECrownofFire]

Alchemy isn't really magic anyway. Anybody can just go around mashing up random ingredients

[Farseer]

so, you're applying your unfounded deduction to an entire game world, just because 'you tough so'?

you know that beggars are commoners in oblivion and commoners have alchemy as class skill?

Point me to a bit of lore that says every person can use magic.

Is alchemy magic?

[Ephemeriis]

pretty useless having a musket, when anyone can make a shield spell out of a potato and a couple of mushrooms.

Wouldn't that also make having a bow useless?  And having a sword?  And knives?  And armor in general?

And yet, all those things seem fairly functional in the games...

Magic is too common for anyone to think about making guns. Anyone smart enough to invent gunpowder would probably be busy thinking of new ways to make the badass magic even more badass. It would come in time, but that's alot of time and most likely guns would alter the entire face of the game, probably not for the better, as well as step on the toes of Lionhead, who have been prettymuch uncontested in that setting for a while. So it's not going to happen.

Then why would crossbows have been invented? Hell, even bows. Why would smithing be invented? Why would anything be invented when everyone can run around using magic?

Not everyone can use magic. Gunpowder would be the great leveller.

Technology, in all it's assorted forms, is a labor-saving device.  It amplifies the work you do.

Magic may enable an individual to do things that they physically could not - pick up a ginormous rock with a spell, instead of their muscles - but it's still work.  We know it's work because you need to train to get better, and there's a limit to what an individual can do, and it eventually tires you out.

So there would still be room for technology to amplify that work being done.

Say you know a spell that can lift 100lbs...  If you exert that 100lbs of force on a lever, you can lift 1000lbs.

Similarly, maybe it's just easier to toss a dispel of some sort on a bag of ammo and shoot at the enemy, rather than actually trying to bash through their defenses with fireballs and lightning bolts.

I don't know that I'd declare gunpowder the "great leveler"...  There'd still be room for magic and armor and melee weapons and bows to be useful...  But gunpowder could most certainly co-exist in the setting.

[LoSboccacc]

so, you're applying your unfounded deduction to an entire game world, just because 'you tough so'?

you know that beggars are commoners in oblivion and commoners have alchemy as class skill?

Point me to a bit of lore that says every person can use magic.

Is alchemy magic?

sorry but this is like the 'point me to evidence that god doesn't exist' argument. you are making up stuff, you substantiate yours claims.

until that, we can just assume from what is certain that:
magic is regulated by the guilds
nowhere is said that magic could only be performed by special or gifted people
magic requires training

and from the game themselves the only reason merchant can't do magic (merchant class as example has restoration as class skill) is that they don't know restoration spells.

so, the evidence point towards 'spells cost too much to learn' more than 'magic is uncommon'

by the way, bow and daggers and swords have their own use. you try to hunt with a fiery fireball spell. also swords are not so useless in closed quarters in oblivion.

[Ephemeriis]

by the way, bow and daggers and swords have their own use. you try to hunt with a fiery fireball spell.

Might save on prep time... 

[PTTG??]

I see magic as being a lot like quantum physics or nanotechnology; the main reason it's not used by soldiers or your average citizen is because it takes years and years of effort to make effects that are only occasionally applicable to a task. Sure, you can then transform elements and strike people down with shiny death, but even then it's probably not as cost-effective to do that as it is to stab someone with a pointy metal stick.

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of magical study is "abstracted away", which is terrible, because it would be awesome to have a stack of books and notes needed to operate your mage at full effectiveness.

[Virtz]

until that, we can just assume from what is certain that:
magic is regulated by the guilds

No, it's not. Regulation would indicate that there are some rules concerning who gets to use magic. Considering they give you, a former convict, all the spells you can afford, it's pretty clear they don't give a damn.

and from the game themselves the only reason merchant can't do magic (merchant class as example has restoration as class skill) is that they don't know restoration spells.

so, the evidence point towards 'spells cost too much to learn' more than 'magic is uncommon'

That makes no sense. "Merchants can't do magic because they don't know restoration spells"? They're freaking merchants, by your logic learning restoration spells is as simple as going to a mage's guild and buying one for petty change. Why wouldn't they do that if they could?

by the way, bow and daggers and swords have their own use. you try to hunt with a fiery fireball spell. also swords are not so useless in closed quarters in oblivion.

What's the problem with using a fireball spell? Or freaking lightning? It'd do a better job, I think. Or why not just summon up a full set of daedric equipment?

[Sordid]

Point me to a bit of lore that says every person can use magic.

sorry but this is like the 'point me to evidence that god doesn't exist' argument. you are making up stuff, you substantiate yours claims.

Actually no, it's not. "God doesn't exist" is a negative statement, "everyone can use magic" is a positive statement. To disprove it you need but one person who can't use magic. The TES universe is full of people who don't use magic, and since using magic is easier than doing things manually (because it's magic), it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that they don't use it because they can't use it.

you know that beggars are commoners in oblivion and commoners have alchemy as class skill? merchant class as example has restoration as class skill

That's because the character class system is set up for the player, who is an adventurer. There is no option for commoners to have fewer class skills, so they had no choice but assign them some that don't make much sense.

so, the evidence point towards 'spells cost too much to learn' more than 'magic is uncommon'

A visit to any spell mechant disproves this statement quite readily.

by the way, bow and daggers and swords have their own use. you try to hunt with a fiery fireball spell.

Magic need not be fiery, there is a basic damage health effect with no elemental type.

No, it's not. Regulation would indicate that there are some rules concerning who gets to use magic. Considering they give you, a former convict, all the spells you can afford, it's pretty clear they don't give a damn.

That's not entirely true. They won't sell you levitation (the official handwave for its removal being that it's been banned), and the banning of necromancy is pretty central to Oblivion's Mages Guild quest line.

[Cheese]

On the ability to cast spells.
Spellcasting, I'd say, is limited by an individual's mental ability. If a person has a higher ability to control their thoughts and has a 'better' imagination then it will be easier for them to cast spells and pull off the necessary mental techniques to perform spells. This is perhaps why some do not pursue spellcasting as it is easier for them to lug around heavy armour and to swing a sword than to cast spells and they could attain a higher ability in melee combat.

The book above, though it may not necessarily be true to the lore, suggests that being able to cast more advanced spells is only possible through training in a certain area, which may mean training in the mental techniques used in that area.