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[Soadreqm]

You do realize he's a lying, backstabbing sonofabitch and all the accounts of his heroic exploits are propaganda penned by himself, right?

Yes. <3

[MasterFancyPants]

I must say, thank you everyone. I never knew TES lore ran so deep. (And I hopped on at Morrowind)

[Ampersand]

So my brother has game informer magazine because he works at Gamestop. The recent issue had Skyrim as it's coverstory. Screenshots were inside. Here's what I can tell off hand after reading a bit and examining the screenshots, assuming they were shots of gameplay and not cutscenes.

1. Being an assassin will mean something.

The elder scrolls series annoyed me when you were supposedly an assassin, and all it meant was that you used light weapons and light armor. One screenshot shows a very up close and personal assassin's creed-esque stab to the gut kill shot.

2. Oblivion 2.

Here again we see a sword in the right hand, and magic spells being used in the left. Expect the same lack of class distinction since you'll more than likely be able to be good at everything.

3. Digging out of the Uncanny Valley.

One of the major points of the screenshots was that the character faces are vastly improved over what we had seen before in Fallout 3/New Vegas, and Oblivion. While New Vegas was getting there with better faces and a variety of voice actors, Bethedsa promises to take this further in Skyrim.

4. Variety in scenery.

There is far more over land variety displayed. Certainly not a completely frozen tundra, to say the least. Various kinds of trees, etc will do much to make things seem less generic than Oblivion. Still, it doesn't feel quite as alien as I'd like. Morrowind was perfectly alien and familiar, with plenty unique scenery to satisfy most.

5. Fallout 4: The Elder Scrolls

Bethedsa implies that they're borrowing a great deal from Fallout 3 and New Vegas for this game, including the perks system that Fallout 3 used. While Oblivion had perks, they were not customizable, something unlocked as skills grew to 50 points, 75 points, and 100 points. And on the whole, they were pretty boring.

Everything I read and saw implies that Skyrim will appeal to everyone who liked Oblivion, and Fallout 3 even more.


Moving on, as for the debate about whether or not Nirn is a Daedric realm. Sure, why not? There is no implied real difference between Daedra and Aedra. After all, Aedra is simply the elvish word for Ancestor, and Daedra simply means, Not Ancestor. Of course Nirn may have been created by the Aedra, but that doesn't mean that Daedra and Aedra themselves aren't more or less the same.

Of course, this means Daedric realm is a poor choice of word. A better way to put it would be, functionally the same as a Daedric Realm.

After all, you do visit the Realm of Sheogorath, and you do find that the only real difference between it and Nirn is that you're the only sane person inside it. Except for Sheogorath's butler.

[AntiAntiMatter]

The Aedra are just Daedra. The only difference is that the Aedra used almost all of their power to create the universe. The Daedrar then came in and twisted bits of it to their liking. The Aedra don't like the Daedra because they are messing with the Aedra's stuff, so they get mortals to fight the Daedra, but the Daedra are generally more powerful than the mortals, and only really powerful mortals can fight Daedra, and that's why you have powerful adventurers (i.e. TES protagonists), as they were created by the Aedra for that sole purpose, but some go with the Daedra rather than the Aedra, so there is a constant struggle to influence them.

[Sensei]

Y'know, the only difference between Tamriel and Oblivion is a lot of lava, for the most part. Well, and the immortal Dremora. The Dremora would point to the realm functioning differently but they might not be on every realm.

Anyway, I don't really see what makes Tamriel different from all the other planes. Perhaps the lack of a ruling prince? But we've seen in Shivering Isles that the Daedra in control can leave or be overthrown.

[Sordid]

Everything I read and saw implies that Skyrim will appeal to everyone who liked Oblivion, and Fallout 3 even more.

Given that the helpful savegame timestamp tells me I've sunk some 70 hours into Oblivion over the past two weeks or so, I guess I have no reason to be worried. Well actually no, that's not quite true, is it. I've only been able to enjoy the game after waiting four years for the modding scene to fix the damn thing. Oh dear.
That slight worry aside, though, most of what you say sounds really good. Lack of distinction between classes has been in TES ever since Daggerfall, so that doesn't bother me. Especially since they're getting rid of them (finally, I might add). I do like the idea of perks, they were always my favorite Fallout feature (especially Sniper, muhehe).

Moving on, as for the debate about whether or not Nirn is a Daedric realm. Sure, why not? There is no implied real difference between Daedra and Aedra. After all, Aedra is simply the elvish word for Ancestor, and Daedra simply means, Not Ancestor. Of course Nirn may have been created by the Aedra, but that doesn't mean that Daedra and Aedra themselves aren't more or less the same.

Of course, this means Daedric realm is a poor choice of word. A better way to put it would be, functionally the same as a Daedric Realm.

After all, you do visit the Realm of Sheogorath, and you do find that the only real difference between it and Nirn is that you're the only sane person inside it. Except for Sheogorath's butler.

There are some differences. Each Daedric realm has a single Prince governing it, yet Nirn has Nine Divines. The Daedric Princes are very much an active, even physical presence in their realms, the Nine Divines don't really seem to do much of anything. And then there's the fact that the inhabitants of Daedric Realms are immortal, whereas the inhabitants of Nirn are not.
It just occurred to me, could it be that the Nine are really evil? Like, morals are really suppsoed to be Daedra but the Nine conspire against them to rob them of their immortality? Maybe the Dwemer were on to something.

Y'know, the only difference between Tamriel and Oblivion is a lot of lava, for the most part.

Actually that's only Mehrunes Dagon's Deadlands that you're talking about. The individual Realms are vastly different from each other.
Oh and btw, I've still not forgiven Bethsoft for that lava thing. What was wrong with the previously established nature of Dagon's Realm? Cold mist, howling winds, and twisted black trees not obviously evil enough?

[AntiAntiMatter]

Y'know, the only difference between Tamriel and Oblivion is a lot of lava, for the most part.

Actually that's only Mehrunes Dagon's Deadlands that you're talking about. The individual Realms are vastly different from each other.
Oh and btw, I've still not forgiven Bethsoft for that lava thing. What was wrong with the previously established nature of Dagon's Realm? Cold mist, howling winds, and twisted black trees not obviously evil enough?

When people think of evil, they think of a volcanic wasteland with menacing black towers. Bethesda did not want to make people have to make any stretch to regard the Daedra as evil.

[Sordid]

When people think of evil, they think of a volcanic wasteland with menacing black towers. Bethesda did not want to make people have to make any stretch to regard the Daedra as evil.

Well that's the problem, they're not evil, they're different. Trying to apply a label like that onto them is a gross oversimplification.
It really irks me how Bethsoft dumbed it down like this. Another example is Camoran's speech towards the end. Nevermind the fact that he got some Realms and their respective Princes mixed up, he talks about how the world is really a Daedric Realm called Dawn's Beauty, misnamed Tamriel by mortals. Except of course Tamriel is just a continent, what he should've said was Nirn. But of course idiot console kiddies who couldn't be bothered to read a single in-game book during the course of the game would have had no idea what he was talking about, so they just had him say Tamriel. It's as if he said: "This world is really called Dawn's Beauty, but ignorant mortals call it America."
But there I go complaining about Oblivion again. Sheesh.

[PenguinOverlord]

Why is this subject so popular? From what we've gathered, the release will be yet more mainstreamed.

[Sensei]

Because we're naive.

[Soadreqm]

I'd guess it's because despite their numerous glaring flaws, the previous games had preposterous amounts of potential. Morrowind had issues, but it was still a great game. I haven't played Oblivion myself, but from what I'm hearing, a lot of people really enjoyed it. Especially with mods. This could just be the time Bethesda finally gets it right. And even if they don't, they might hit close enough that it can be mostly fixed by modding.

[Sordid]

It's not just potential. Replaying Oblivion now, I'm absolutely staggered by the amount of work that's been put into it, the attention to detail. It is monstrously huge and, ignoring the main quest, incredibly rich and detailed.
But then all of that is contrasted against the dumbing down of the plot and the lore, and the incredible laziness demonstrated by Bethsoft in some of the other aspects of the game. Everything about it is just a little more annoying than it needs to be. For example, if you try switching weapons while your character is swinging or casting, the game displayes a message telling you that you can't switch in the middle of an attack. Well god dammit, instead of displaying such a stupid message and making the player press the button again, would it really have been that difficult to just make the game wait for the current attack to finish and then switch? But no, they couldn't be bothered, so they just put in a message that annoys you in pretty much every single one of the intense and fast-paced fights.
And it really is just laziness. The horrible console interface? Check out the mod Darnified UI, you'll be amazed what can be done with it even without extensively redesigning the whole thing from scratch (such as the PC ports of Fable and Mass Effect did, for example). Bethsoft could've done that, but they couldn't be bothered, so they just kept the humongous icons and text designed to be viewed on a TV screen from across the living room.

[nenjin]

Wait, they're putting perks in Oblivion?

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They have absolutely no shame left. Who else but Bethesda can get away with making the same game for 5 years straight and still make money?

[3]

Who else but Bethesda can get away with making the same game for 5 years straight and still make money?

I don't know, almost every other major publisher-developer in the industry?

[Soadreqm]

Who else but Bethesda can get away with making the same game for 5 years straight and still make money?

Toady One?