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Author Topic: [SPOILER] Why is HFS in DF so much OVERKILL?!  (Read 20196 times)

rephikul

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Re: [SPOILER] Why is HFS in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2010, 03:53:34 am »

Interesting. This is the first I've heard that I had been told to 'stop crying' or that I was "annoying" or out of line. I started this thread to ask why HFS are so overpowered and to discuss suggestions on the subject. This was done with the understanding that participation on this forum was open, as long as conversation was kept clean and polite. The words written here speak for themselves.
Last time i checked this is still the DF Suggestions board. Your first post also indicate a suggestion along the line of "Nerf HFS please!!". But i guess it's fine, you just want to uh, discuss. Feel free to discuss your opinion and put the suggestion when you are through, but find more proper place somewhere else. And maybe beef up your understanding of the game when you are at it.

Spoiler: stuff (click to show/hide)
Very nice, ad hominem. I like that. And just so you know "hello this is my last post and i'm done talking to you" doesnt work on me either. It's very ironic for you to bring the out the troll definition while you have been, since the creation of this topic, holding up the "I'm newb" disguise to justify your ridiculous obliviousness, the kind of obliviousness only very dumb people or obvious trolls possess. It's not me vs you, it's probably you vs every posts you see. Maybe check your glasses? Even look at your blood = fps loss fix rally which you are so profoundly claim to be more important then path finding fix, it's actually you who's doing the trolling. Everyone with a dent of knowledge know how to deal with splatter. Meanwhile there's no good way to improve path finding related FPS unless toady do it himself. It's no coincidence that it has 900+ votes on the tracker while yours have like, 2 vote? Look like DF forum goers are smart after all. Heck, after I inquired about your knowledge on splatter and path finding you went silent. Leave me wondered if there're anything to show for.

On the wow note, I dont frequent their forum nor bothered with your link. However, everyone and I right now am trying to fix you and hopefully you'd learn to properly contribute. So maybe it's better indeed.

Anyway, thank you rephikul for reminding me to be more careful in choosing whether or not to respond to comments. And for reminding me that this forum is for the benefit of enjoying the game.
I dont really care what you call me but if you will indeed make better posts then mission accomplished  8)

EDIT: I should mention after hours of meditation and scourging every guides on the internet I found out a very complex but slightly reliable way to turn off HFS without breaking anything:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 04:10:39 am by rephikul »
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Intensifying Mod v0.23 for 0.31.25. Paper tigers are white.
Prepacked Dwarf Fortress with Intensifying mod v.0.23, Phoebus graphics set, DFhack, Dwarf Therapist, Runesmith and a specialized custom worldgen param.

Sunday

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Re: [SPOILER] Why is HFS in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2010, 09:28:08 am »

C'mon guys, let's stop the name-calling stuff.

Anyway, I've been playing DF for 2-3 yrs or so. I can't beat the HFS, but on the other hand, I don't feel like I need to.

Having unbeatable (to me) HFS is what makes mining adamantine fun. Otherwise you get the super-metal for no risk. As it is, I only mine out very limited quantities, because if I mine out a square too much, my fort is likely to be destroyed. And mining out limited quantities means that I can only supply a few of my favorite military dwarfs with adamantine weapons and armor. Which, in turn, makes them extra-special. . .and extra effective against sieges & FBs and cavern critters and such.

Getting adamantine should open you up to extreme risk. Making the HFS easier isn't the solution—if you don't want to fight the demons, then don't mine adamantine. It's that easy.
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irmo

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Why are demons in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2010, 01:10:36 pm »

Perhaps what I wrote could be mis-interpreted that way, but I did not say that it was a bad thing. I was not trying to dis the hard core or elite crowd.

And I think I can understand a need for "something" too keep elite players interested. But does this have to be done by forcing that preference (HFS as a countdown to doom) onto new players as well? (Everyone wins by making this a setting in Init or world gen.)

Well, that depends. If hell is there "to keep elite players interested", then it has to be beatable. Of course the "elite players" will then beat it and want another challenge.

If it's there to make an artistic statement about the inevitable downfall of mice and dwarves, then it should be unbeatable and unavoidable by any means, including init options, editing the raw files, etc. I have the sense that the old "too deep" ending was intended like this--the only way to avoid it was to not mine any adamantine, ever. Once you dug into the stuff, the Reaper Man was coming your way.

I'm not sure what purpose is served by an unstoppable apocalypse that you can turn off in the init file. As noted before, you can already end your fortress at any time if that's what you want.
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Fayrik

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Re: Why are demons in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2010, 01:19:04 pm »

I'm not sure what purpose is served by an unstoppable apocalypse that you can turn off in the init file. As noted before, you can already end your fortress at any time if that's what you want.
The trouble is quite simply: Abandoning is no "Fun".
After all, "Fun" is what Dwarf Fortress is all about. So, if you're not finished off by a tantrum spiral, having an infinite number of giant Silverfish burn everyone before eating them one by one is the "Fun" way of finishing a fortress.
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So THIS is how migrations start.
"Hey, dude, there's this crazy bastard digging in the ground for stuff. Let's go watch."

Zidane

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Re: [SPOILER] Why is HFS in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2010, 02:31:05 pm »

I agree that hell is empty, and could be improved.


I want blood grass, and harrada! Maybe hell specific gems?
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irmo

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Re: Why are demons in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2010, 02:42:06 pm »

The trouble is quite simply: Abandoning is no "Fun".
After all, "Fun" is what Dwarf Fortress is all about. So, if you're not finished off by a tantrum spiral, having an infinite number of giant Silverfish burn everyone before eating them one by one is the "Fun" way of finishing a fortress.

The question then is how much effort ought to be put into giving your fortress a cool death scene, versus improving any of the things that it can do while it's alive.

Personally, I don't think "having an infinite number of giant silverfish burn everyone" is all that interesting. Having the fortress explode because explosions are cool is less Fun than running into an obstacle that can be beaten, but not by me, yet, and struggling to try to manage it, and failing.
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Qinetix

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Re: [SPOILER] Why is HFS in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2010, 03:25:21 pm »

If you don't want Hidden Fun Stuff roaming around your base don't mine adamanite , mining it comes with a certain price no matter...
First time i encountered them they destroyed my hole fortress..... and one of my adventurer's
Anyways i recommend getting allot of Hammer Dwarfs ..... ,traps (seems useless i think) , marks dwarfs  and wrestlers
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Silverionmox

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Re: [SPOILER] Why is HFS in DF so much OVERKILL?!
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2010, 04:02:30 pm »

It doesn't matter how strong demons are. Just increase their quantity with each wave. Eventually, they'll overwhelm the fort's defenses. This makes it possible to actually survive a few waves without being spoiled and preparing extensively. At the same time, it becomes impossible to win the game, but it's still possible to make progress for the players who are seeking for a challenge. It's a bit like tower defense games, and hell knows how addictive they are.

As a side remark, instead of spawning demons out of thin air they might as well spawn deep down in the magma sea. Seems a bit more atmospheric when they emerge, less gamey and more difficult to prepare against and exploit.
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Dwarf Fortress cured my savescumming.
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