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[Akura]

I always liked the danger room using goblins instead of spears, but these days that's a little risky.

Because they buffed the goblin punch, and there are no Blue Mages among your dwarves?

[Ganthan]

In the name of the !!SCIENCE!! of training, I started up a new fort with invaders turned off to see how optimal I could get actual organized training to work.  I gave one dwarf 5 levels in both Swordsdwarf and Teacher, left another with no skills at all and the rest with assorted fortress skills.  I fashioned a crude barracks and two training swords and let them have at it.  I want to see just how much difference that extra Teacher skill right from the get go makes, as well as him only having one skill to pass on.  I debated about giving the recruit 5 levels in Student and Concentration and decided against it, due to the fact that new recruits are probably never gonna have those skills to begin with anyway.

So far they seem to be alternating primarily between sword demonstrations and individual drills, occasionally interspersed by the recruit demonstrating something he just happened to learn a bit more of than the commander in the individual drills.  I only just started and am still in Mid-Spring but I'll report back with my findings.

[Nilik]

Yeah, this is the thing that turns me off about DF currently. I get a fort to the first migrant wave, start building a military and.... give up because they're not learning.

Its irritating how many skills are needed for a dwarf to be a decent trainer. First, they need to have the requisite fighting skills, then they need to have decent organisation or you waste a lot of time while their students stand around waiting for the demo to start, then they need decent teaching to impart a noticable fraction of their knowledge onto their students, and the students need student and concentration or they'll hardly learn anyway.

I've heard putting them on individual drills for 6 months or so, then switching to group training works better, as it brings them all up to a basic level of competence at least. Is this true?

[Mr. Argent]

I've never managed to train a successful army (or at least an army that didn't make every victory a Pyrrhic one), so that's why i did some raw editing...and, well, there's a good reason my fortress is filled with War Eagles.

[Ganthan]

Wow!  In a mere month, my recruit became a Novice Swordsdwarf.  Teacher skill really makes a difference.  Bear in mind they had a sparring session as well as the fact that swordsdwarf is the only skill my commander can pass on.  I'll let this run for a whole year and see how the recruit does.

[moghopper]

well I guess I will finally cave and build a danger room...

[Ganthan]

Summer has arrived and the recruit has moved up to Adequate Swordsdwarf and Novice Fighter.  At this rate he should equal his commander easily by the first year.  Let's find out.

[squeakyReaper]

Summer has arrived and the recruit has moved up to Adequate Swordsdwarf and Novice Fighter.  At this rate he should equal his commander easily by the first year.  Let's find out.

What is the recruit's Student skill, and the Commander's Teaching skill now?  I'd like to see how those are growing too.

[slothen]

for anyone interested in science, my next embark will be with a dwarf with level 5 teacher and level 5 organizer (all the other skills train fast in a danger room except wrestler).  i'm going to train that dwarf solo in a tiny danger room, then I'll see what he can do with raw recruits.  If you want to avoid using danger rooms entirely, then a dedicated teacher on embark plus wooden training weapons vs mountain goats seems like a good way to jump start training.

[Pilsu]

Is training really necessary though? Goblins have next to no skills themselves and you're much, much better equipped. Even if they wore steel, your equipment gets quality modifiers. Losing dwarves in battle should be an expected outcome when being invaded by a large enemy force.

[squeakyReaper]

Very necessary!  Goblins are seemingly infinite while Dwarves are not.  Even though it seems like you have an amazing amount of migrants sent at you constantly, you really don't have the numbers to send your dwarves into a grinder.  It's expected that your 50 dwarf max army can take on all invaders- unskilled dwarves aren't taking down a dragon after all!  (this is a lie, because sometimes they will)

[Pilsu]

It really shouldn't end up being a grinder though. Proper strategy, superior equipment and perhaps some unrelated physical training such as swimming would make your men far superior to the enemy fodder. Traps could also be utilized sparingly to soften the enemy up a bit. Then again, I doubt dwarves can be prohibited from engaging in personal drills. Irritating if so, seeing as it makes it difficult to properly manage the civilians (read: abuse the uniform feature to make farmers wear leather boots.)


If memory serves, archery ranges used to have the same skill limit functionality as other buildings. Does that work? If I say, want to limit dwarves to train in the range until they're Expert marksmen, can I do it without meticulous micromanagement?

[mrbobbyg]

Is training really necessary though? Goblins have next to no skills themselves and you're much, much better equipped. Even if they wore steel, your equipment gets quality modifiers. Losing dwarves in battle should be an expected outcome when being invaded by a large enemy force.

This makes me think you have never actually fought the goblins in 3.12 +, because you will get pounded sending newbs out at them.

[EddyP]

Is training really necessary though? Goblins have next to no skills themselves and you're much, much better equipped. Even if they wore steel, your equipment gets quality modifiers. Losing dwarves in battle should be an expected outcome when being invaded by a large enemy force.

At a glance it seems that the goblins are worse equipped, until you realize that they have whips and scourges, which make mincemeat out of everything. I had a dwarf who was lvl 11 in all military skills, equipped in full steel, killed by a gobbo with an iron whip. The dwarf didn't get to do anything - the first hit from the whip broke his arm and then there was a page or so of further bone fracturing action before the whip pushed his skull through his brain.

[Ganthan]

I'm almost done with my first test, though I'm getting kicked off the computer now so my report might not come until tomorrow.  I will say this quickly, though. 

After the recruit reached Competent Swordsdwarf they never did another sword demonstration.  I'm not sure if this means that demonstrations have a cap or not but we'll see.