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[Phmcw]

We've already been over this. Manning's action were trivial, malicious, and unacceptable. Please go back and read the whole "why soldiers can't be allowed to make subjective decisions about strategy or morality" thing, and the thing about soldiers not having a responsibility to protect enemy sympathizers and bystanders, only their own people.

Yes, they took this stance in Nuremberg.
It worked, they were not hanged or anything.

[Aqizzar]

Manning's actions were unprecedented.  His treatment is inhumane, but it's hard to know WTF to do with him or what to charge him with since it just hasn't happened before.  They want to get it right the first time.

Daniel Ellsberg, a military-industrial-complex wonk, released Top-Secret documents on the conduct and strategy of the Vietnam War to the New York Times.  He was the first U.S. citizen ever tried by the Federal government for publicly "leaking" documents for its own sake, as opposed to conducting espionage for a foreign agency.  The long and eventual outcome concluded that the Times had the right to publish what it was freely handed, and Ellsberg was found innocent by reason of mistrial because the FBI repeatedly violated Fourth Amendment statutes trying to obtain evidence to use against him.

The scale and method may be unprecedented, but the legal quandry itself is only slightly complicated by the fact that Manning is a serving member of the military.

[Sergius]

Manning's actions were unprecedented.  His treatment is inhumane, but it's hard to know WTF to do with him or what to charge him with since it just hasn't happened before.  They want to get it right the first time.

But they're alreading getting it wrong by not, I dunno, locking him up under more humane conditions.

Just FYI, being in 99% solitary confinement for 7 months qualifies as torture to pretty much the entire world. Might as well waterboard him. Anyone even disagrees that he's just detained PENDING a trial? Or anyone in this thread seriously consider that he's already officially serving "his time" whatever that means.

[Urist is dead tome]

Manning's actions were unprecedented.  His treatment is inhumane, but it's hard to know WTF to do with him or what to charge him with since it just hasn't happened before.  They want to get it right the first time.

But they're alreading getting it wrong by not, I dunno, locking him up under more humane conditions.

Just FYI, being in 99% solitary confinement for 7 months qualifies as torture to pretty much the entire world. Might as well waterboard him. Anyone even disagrees that he's just detained PENDING a trial? Or anyone in this thread seriously consider that he's already officially serving "his time" whatever that means.

Are you really comparing a simulation of drowning to loneliness? Really?

[Cthulhu]

Manning's actions were unprecedented.  His treatment is inhumane, but it's hard to know WTF to do with him or what to charge him with since it just hasn't happened before.  They want to get it right the first time.

But they're alreading getting it wrong by not, I dunno, locking him up under more humane conditions.

Just FYI, being in 99% solitary confinement for 7 months qualifies as torture to pretty much the entire world. Might as well waterboard him. Anyone even disagrees that he's just detained PENDING a trial? Or anyone in this thread seriously consider that he's already officially serving "his time" whatever that means.

Are you really comparing a simulation of drowning to loneliness? Really?

Come now, you, I, and everyone else (Nikov possibly excluded) knows that "Loneliness" is a deliberate misrepresentation of what they're doing to him.

[Aqizzar]

Are you really comparing a simulation of drowning to loneliness? Really?

I knew somebody was going to say it eventually.  I fucking knew it.

You want to know what that's like?  Get some bread and a 55-gallon drum of tomato soup.  Put it in your bathroom.  Put yourself in there with it.  Stay in there all day.  Sleep on the floor.  Talk to no one.  Read nothing.  And make sure you have a guy who hates you standing by to beat you up if you try to talk or exercise.  Stay in there for two days.  Stay in there for two hundred more days.

And now remember that Manning hasn't been tried or convicted of anything.  That he hasn't technically been arraigned.  And that no one, anywhere, cares, because Assange is a much better story.

[Outcast Orange]

I was about to flame, but I don't think I could say it much better than that.

Aqizzar represents my interests in this topic.

[ChairmanPoo]

Are you really comparing a simulation of drowning to loneliness? Really?

I knew somebody was going to say it eventually.  I fucking knew it.

You want to know what that's like?  Get some bread and a 55-gallon drum of tomato soup.  Put it in your bathroom.  Put yourself in there with it.  Stay in there all day.  Sleep on the floor.  Talk to no one.  Read nothing.  And make sure you have a guy who hates you standing by to beat you up if you try to talk or exercise.  Stay in there for two days.  Stay in there for two hundred more days.

Dont forget to keep a total stranger that doesn't talk to you yet peeks at what you are doing.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Manning's actions were unprecedented.  His treatment is inhumane, but it's hard to know WTF to do with him or what to charge him with since it just hasn't happened before.  They want to get it right the first time.

But they're alreading getting it wrong by not, I dunno, locking him up under more humane conditions.

Just FYI, being in 99% solitary confinement for 7 months qualifies as torture to pretty much the entire world. Might as well waterboard him. Anyone even disagrees that he's just detained PENDING a trial? Or anyone in this thread seriously consider that he's already officially serving "his time" whatever that means.

Are you really comparing a simulation of drowning to loneliness? Really?

Come now, you, I, and everyone else (Nikov possibly excluded) knows that "Loneliness" is a deliberate misrepresentation of what they're doing to him.

Is Nikov even still around? I haven't seen any posts by him in a few months, I think.

We've already been over this. Manning's action were trivial, malicious, and unacceptable. Please go back and read the whole "why soldiers can't be allowed to make subjective decisions about strategy or morality" thing, and the thing about soldiers not having a responsibility to protect enemy sympathizers and bystanders, only their own people.

Yes, they took this stance in Nuremberg.
It worked, they were not hanged or anything.

Soldiers are pieces of a machine, and they cannot question what the machine is doing. As much as you like arguing "The machine is evil and bottom-rung soldiers are obviously better equipped to deal with the complex moral clusterfuck that is war than officers because... uh... they're not part of the machine, man... or something...", what about when the soldiers come to conclusions you don't like? Think of the squad that made a game of killing civilians that wound up court marshaled when someone else in the platoon ratted them out to a higher officer (note that if they must break normal procedure to reveal blatant wrongdoing, going up their own damn ladder is the way to do it; still frowned upon, but not, you know, treason). That was also a case of soldiers thinking for themselves, and drawing their own conclusions. How about the soldiers that snap and start shooting their comrades? Thinking for themselves. While the Manning case is rather mild, especially compared to those, it is only so because of the general unimportance of everything leaked; he accomplished nothing of value, and left his head on the chopping block.

I see how that could have been easy to miss, since it was posted just hours before Urist is dead tome started trolling up the place, resulting in a massive shitstorm that buried it under several pages of derp.

[Phmcw]

And it's all false.
Soldier aren't machine piece, and we aren't even really at war.

And, most importantly, they MUST put a stop when it come to "cross the line" by violating international, or national, laws.

Edit:

That was also a case of soldiers thinking for themselves, and drawing their own conclusions. How about the soldiers that snap and start shooting their comrades?

How does that even make sense? Should civilian stop thinking for themselves too. They happen to shoot poeple from times to times, too.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah... being alone for that long is gonna drive almost anyone nuts.

I mean, what the hell kindof difference would it make to anyone to just put him in a normal cell?

[Urist is dead tome]

I see how that could have been easy to miss, since it was posted just hours before Urist is dead tome started trolling up the place, resulting in a massive shitstorm that buried it under several pages of derp.

Okay. I shouldn't have said that. But I would like to point out that I'm not a troll. I would have to be a pretty unimaginative troll to simply call Julian an ass. I should probably leave.

[Aqizzar]

I see how that could have been easy to miss, since it was posted just hours before Urist is dead tome started trolling up the place, resulting in a massive shitstorm that buried it under several pages of derp.

Okay. I shouldn't have said that. But I would like to point out that I'm not a troll. I would have to be a pretty unimaginative troll to simply call Julian an ass. I should probably leave.

Julian ASSange. That is all.

Well, you did say 'that is all'.

[Urist is dead tome]

I see how that could have been easy to miss, since it was posted just hours before Urist is dead tome started trolling up the place, resulting in a massive shitstorm that buried it under several pages of derp.

Okay. I shouldn't have said that. But I would like to point out that I'm not a troll. I would have to be a pretty unimaginative troll to simply call Julian an ass. I should probably leave.

Julian ASSange. That is all.

Well, you did say 'that is all'.

I fail to see you're point.

[Ochita]

You simply called him an Ass.