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[Urist is dead tome]

This Private Manning I think should be thrown in Guantanamo for treason. At the very least.

[Sowelu]

Well, I would say "accused rapist who, like any other accused rapist, the police would like to bring down to the station for a chat".

When the cops say "We'd like you to come in for questioning", and you flee the country, then go into hiding, something is seriously wrong.

Turning himself in eventually was absolutely the right move, though.

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

I am concerned about the way our country has been locking people up for long periods without charges over the last ten years.  The right to a speedy trial IS a constitutional right.  But as long as it stays restricted to military operatives, I can only show so much concern.

[Urist is dead tome]

Well, I would say "accused rapist who, like any other accused rapist, the police would like to bring down to the station for a chat".

When the cops say "We'd like you to come in for questioning", and you flee the country, then go into hiding, something is seriously wrong.

Turning himself in eventually to a country that seemed safe was absolutely the right move, though.

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

I am concerned about the way our country has been locking people up for long periods without charges over the last ten years.  The right to a speedy trial IS a constitutional right.  But as long as it stays restricted to military operatives, I can only show so much concern.

This is different. I would guess the right to a speedy trial is kinda waved when you commit gross treason.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Well, I would say "accused rapist who, like any other accused rapist, the police would like to bring down to the station for a chat".

When the cops say "We'd like you to come in for questioning", and you flee the country, then go into hiding, something is seriously wrong.

Turning himself in eventually to a country that seemed safe was absolutely the right move, though.

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

I am concerned about the way our country has been locking people up for long periods without charges over the last ten years.  The right to a speedy trial IS a constitutional right.  But as long as it stays restricted to military operatives, I can only show so much concern.

This is different. I would guess the right to a speedy trial is kinda waved when you commit gross treason.

How about people in place stopped doing this kind of shit and then no document need to be leaked ? Would be much more humane than trowing a citizen to a living hell.

[Aqizzar]

This is different. I would guess the right to a speedy trial is kinda waved when you commit gross treason.

No, it is not "different".  The very point of a trial to prove whether or not you committed something.  Yes, he more or less confessed to it.  A confession is not a substitute for a trial.  The charges against him haven't even been settled, so technically the court doesn't even know what it's trying to determine him guilty of.  This may come as a shock, but yes, suspects and detainees, even people caught in the act, do have rights to fair treatment and hearing, no matter the circumstances.

(And to forestall any argument about foreign terrorists of whatever, Private Manning is most definitely an American citizen.  He's the one being discussed here.)

[Cthulhu]

Well, I would say "accused rapist who, like any other accused rapist, the police would like to bring down to the station for a chat".

When the cops say "We'd like you to come in for questioning", and you flee the country, then go into hiding, something is seriously wrong.

Turning himself in eventually to a country that seemed safe was absolutely the right move, though.

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

I am concerned about the way our country has been locking people up for long periods without charges over the last ten years.  The right to a speedy trial IS a constitutional right.  But as long as it stays restricted to military operatives, I can only show so much concern.

This is different. I would guess the right to a speedy trial is kinda waved when you commit gross treason.

How about people in place stopped doing this kind of shit and then no document need to be leaked ? Would be much more humane than trowing a citizen to a living hell.

So the government should retroactively not do the things that got leaked?

[Phmcw]

So in the first, he starts fucking her, the condom breaks and he doesn't stop, so it's rape?

Yeah.  Condom breaks, they tell you to stop, you don't, it is no longer consentual.  You have crossed the line and you are now having non-consentual sex, also known as rape.  No means no, you douche.

In the second, they fuck, go to sleep in the same bed, he wakes up and fucks her again, so it's rape?

Yes, without a condom (which she previously said she didn't want to do), and he started while she was asleep (so she wouldn't stop him).  She *explicitly* denied consent to that act the previous night, and she was asleep in the morning and so she never changed to giving her assent.  It was nonconsentual sex.  Also known as rape.  Still following?

...
It's a VERY wide definition of rape, not admitted in my country, and most likely in yours. Sweden is one of the only country o classify such act as rape. Under most law, it's a sexual assault, or whatever term is applied for a much lesser sexual misdemeanor than rape. In this case too, it's a "minor" form of rape that is pressed, one that has as maximum penality six year of prison.

Well gee, ANY ASSAULT CASE is improvable too if there are no witnesses.  A hell of a lot of theft cases are too.  What the fuck makes rape a special, magical crime where 'her word against his' is suddenly inadmissable?  They're going to follow up on any case like that.  At the very least, if someone is accused of rape, assault, or anything similar, they want to bring the guy in for questioning.  There's corroborating stories from two different victims.  And who knows, maybe they did a rape kit so they have some evidence.

lol, if you can't back your claim, and won't be able to, I don't think interpol will usually launch an arrest warrant against you.
And if you can't prove an accusation, then you'd better shut up if you don't want to be charged for defamation.

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

No offense, but they're treating Manning pretty lightly. They could very, VERY easily throw him in front of a courts-martial and try him on a number of counts which carry "death by firing squad" at the tail end of them. I know a lot of this is embarassment at the fact that the intel network had gotten so multi-agency and mobbed down that some bullshit Private (who had higher than a Secret clearance as a 35-whatever) could screw so many pooches simultaneously, but seriously....the Army has every right to have him in maximum lockup. And the denying pillows and bedsheets? It's a standard detention tactic to prevent suicides *and* murders which could be made to look like suicides. Don't tell me there aren't several thousand in uniform (including many of his former colleagues) who'd like to get their hands on him right now, because he pissed in the pie for the entire Intelligence Community.

Well, If he betrayed the Reich, I guess you can kill him.
I love the reasoning : we are on war against terror, then the enemy is civilian, then if someone give information to journalists (with wikileak as intermediate) he's giving information  to civilian, thus the enemy, and is a traitor to mother America.
Way to go. You want another good idea : these prisoner in Guantanamo are expensive, they should work...

[Aqizzar]

How about people in place stopped doing this kind of shit and then no document need to be leaked ? Would be much more humane than trowing a citizen to a living hell.

So the government should retroactively not do the things that got leaked?

How many times must we go down the road of "every reaction is not a past solution"?  Being fair to MBP, he probably means "from now on".

More to the point, one could make the argument of "leaking" as a way of saying to the government "ha, caught you, you have to stop doing that now" and the government will go "oh man, we're so busted, especially since vindication makes a guy untouchable".  That of course is patently ludicrous.

[Urist is dead tome]

Well they way I see it.

Private Manning has committed treason. We stand to gain from locking him up. Why not lock him up?

[Aqizzar]

Well they way I see it.

Private Manning has committed treason. We stand to gain from locking him up. Why not lock him up?

...Okay, let's take this one step at a time.  It's not a question of "locking him up".  It's a question of treatment.  I hate to bring up irrelevant issues, but it really must be said that Manning is being treated in a remarkably similar way to how terror suspects were treated in Guantanamo.  Treatment which both this Presidential administration and the rest of the world called reprehensible.  Seven months of solitary confinement, for a suspect who is being held for trial, is simply disgusting.  He's not Charles Manson, he's hasn't even been convicted.

We do have standards, which are being grossly violated here, to the point that he may well actually be released in the course of his trial, due to horribly improper conduct on the part of the law and the prosecution.  That's what releases on "technicalities" as usually about, when the holding system tries to enact its own brand of justice on someone awaiting trial.  Overzealous prosecution and abusive jailing does more to release the "obviously" guilty than any defense team could ever hope for.

[Phmcw]

Bradley Manning is the true patriot, the traitors that sullied the name of america are the one who didn't ensured that civilian death stayed minimal, that allowed the engagement policies leading to the "collateral murder", that allowed the afghan government to become the corrupt filth that it is currently.
They are those who dragged America in the war in Irak under false pretenses, those who hired blackwater, those who kindmapped and tortured.
When shall them be tried?

[Duke 2.0]

Bradley Manning is the true patriot, the traitors that sullied the name of america are the one who didn't ensured that civilian death stayed minimal, that allowed the engagement policies leading to the "collateral murder", that allowed the afghan government to become the corrupt filth that it is currently.
They are those who dragged America in the war in Irak under false pretenses, those who hired blackwater, those who kindmapped and tortured.
When shall them be tried?

Good message, pulled down by bias. Perhaps bias isn't the best word, but this terminology ain't helping.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

When the cops say "We'd like you to come in for questioning", and you flee the country, then go into hiding, something is seriously wrong.

More like "We'd like you to come in for questioning," "So can I come in for questioning?" "Nah, we don't care," "Can I leave then? I've got shit to do," "Sure whatever, we're just going to drop this anyways" *leaves* "LOOK HE'S RUNNING AWAY KILLKILLKILLKILL!"

Bradley Manning is the true patriot, the traitors that sullied the name of america are the one who didn't ensured that civilian death stayed minimal, that allowed the engagement policies leading to the "collateral murder", that allowed the afghan government to become the corrupt filth that it is currently.
They are those who dragged America in the war in Irak under false pretenses, those who hired blackwater, those who kindmapped and tortured.
When shall them be tried?

We've already been over this. Manning's action were trivial, malicious, and unacceptable. Please go back and read the whole "why soldiers can't be allowed to make subjective decisions about strategy or morality" thing, and the thing about soldiers not having a responsibility to protect enemy sympathizers and bystanders, only their own people.

[Outcast Orange]

I've been following this topic closely and I've seen no such conclusion.

I have however seen plenty of wishful thinking.

[Sowelu]

Manning's actions were unprecedented.  His treatment is inhumane, but it's hard to know WTF to do with him or what to charge him with since it just hasn't happened before.  They want to get it right the first time.