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[Urist is dead tome]

Julian ASSange. That about sums up my thoughts on his actions

[Sowelu]

http://hypedtalk.blogspot.com/2010/12/report-prepared-by-secret-swedish.html

Yeah.  I'm pretty much willing to believe these charges.  Subsequently saying "IT WAS A CONSPIRACY!" is kind of...bleh.

[ChairmanPoo]

The Swedish report traces events over a four-day period in August this year when 39-year-old Assange had what he has described as consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women.

Oh the humanity! Clearly we must keep the streets clean of dangerous predators like Assange!

[Sowelu]

Wow, nice selective quoting.  That's how HE described it.

Both women say that Assange first agreed to use a condom and then refused, in the first instance by continuing with sex after the condom broke, and in the second by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep, the Times reports.

Slightly different than was first reported, and not very good.  "Refusing to stop after the condom broke" and "Taking sexual advantage of someone who's unconscious, doing something they explicitly said they didn't want to do".  How are either of those not criminal rape, especially the second one?

[Phmcw]

None of them are, because they are improvable.
How would YOU like to be arrested for a claim that could not possibly be backed.

Beside I'm quite curious : have anyone been imprisoned for these charges before?

[Sowelu]

None of them are, because they are improvable.
How would YOU like to be arrested for a claim that could not possibly be backed.

Well gee, ANY ASSAULT CASE is improvable too if there are no witnesses.  A hell of a lot of theft cases are too.  What the fuck makes rape a special, magical crime where 'her word against his' is suddenly inadmissable?  They're going to follow up on any case like that.  At the very least, if someone is accused of rape, assault, or anything similar, they want to bring the guy in for questioning.  There's corroborating stories from two different victims.  And who knows, maybe they did a rape kit so they have some evidence.

In fact, I'd say that's a pretty good reason for wanting to bring him in for questioning, and for him to want to dodge it.  They went to the cops just a day or three after the fact, right?  If they did a kit, there's probably physical evidence of the "sex without a condom" variety...that they want to try and match against him.

[eerr]

I would be more concerned over this 'Wikileaks' issue, but they seems unconcerned about their effects on the outside world, and, on average, assy.

I really can't say I care or am suprised that someone got arrested, and I can't be bothered to look into the details because I know the Wikileaks guy was doing things he shouldn't have, regardless of legality and freedom of speech.

[RedKing]

The second one? Yes. It could be legally argued to be the same as raping someone after a Rufie Colada.

Although you gotta wonder....if the act didn't wake her up, then Julian's got a mighty small Wiki, if you catch my drift.


I dunno....I'm ambivalent over the charges. Suspicious timing, but then sometimes people who think they're invincible take those sort of liberties.

 My beef with Assange has little to do with his private life.

[Cthulhu]

Although you gotta wonder....if the act didn't wake her up, then Julian's got a mighty small Wiki, if you catch my drift.

Who says she didn't wake up?

[RedKing]

Although you gotta wonder....if the act didn't wake her up, then Julian's got a mighty small Wiki, if you catch my drift.

Who says she didn't wake up?

Well if she did, and asked him to stop and he didn't, then it was bonafide rape. I haven't read the details in minutiae, just going off what others have posted.
If she did, but didn't ask him to stop, then I'd say no harm no foul.
If she did, asked him to stop, and he did....erm, then you're in kind of a grey area. Probably not rape but certainly could constitute sexual assault for the pre-consciousness portion.

[Aqizzar]

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Wow, nice selective quoting.  That's how HE described it.

Both women say that Assange first agreed to use a condom and then refused, in the first instance by continuing with sex after the condom broke, and in the second by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep, the Times reports.

Slightly different than was first reported, and not very good.  "Refusing to stop after the condom broke" and "Taking sexual advantage of someone who's unconscious, doing something they explicitly said they didn't want to do".  How are either of those not criminal rape, especially the second one?

So in the first, he starts fucking her, the condom breaks and he doesn't stop, so it's rape?
In the second, they fuck, go to sleep in the same bed, he wakes up and fucks her again, so it's rape?

The fuck does that fit together in your head? "They totally consented but then WHARGLBARGL so RAPE!"?


I suppose crazier shit has happened, like a man in Israel getting convicted of rape for claiming to be a Jew to get laid.

[Sowelu]

So in the first, he starts fucking her, the condom breaks and he doesn't stop, so it's rape?

Yeah.  Condom breaks, they tell you to stop, you don't, it is no longer consentual.  You have crossed the line and you are now having non-consentual sex, also known as rape.  No means no, you douche.

In the second, they fuck, go to sleep in the same bed, he wakes up and fucks her again, so it's rape?

Yes, without a condom (which she previously said she didn't want to do), and he started while she was asleep (so she wouldn't stop him).  She *explicitly* denied consent to that act the previous night, and she was asleep in the morning and so she never changed to giving her assent.  It was nonconsentual sex.  Also known as rape.  Still following?

[Urist is dead tome]

So Julian is a international criminal rapist who has no respect for the law. Sounds justified for jail time.

[RedKing]

In other news, Private Bradley Manning, that 21-year-old soldier with Secret clearance and access to diplomatic cables, is still in jail.  He hasn't exactly been charged with a specific crime yet, and his trial date is nowhere in sight.  He's still waiting for a psychological evaluation before he can be tried, and the court still can't decide who can be trusted to conduct it.

In the meantime, he's been in 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement, deprived of sleep or human contact or any kind of activity besides sitting still, and possibly beaten silly a few times, for almost seven months now.  Because, y'know, he might leak more top secret cables if he was in a normal brig.

No offense, but they're treating Manning pretty lightly. They could very, VERY easily throw him in front of a courts-martial and try him on a number of counts which carry "death by firing squad" at the tail end of them. I know a lot of this is embarassment at the fact that the intel network had gotten so multi-agency and mobbed down that some bullshit Private (who had higher than a Secret clearance as a 35-whatever) could screw so many pooches simultaneously, but seriously....the Army has every right to have him in maximum lockup. And the denying pillows and bedsheets? It's a standard detention tactic to prevent suicides *and* murders which could be made to look like suicides. Don't tell me there aren't several thousand in uniform (including many of his former colleagues) who'd like to get their hands on him right now, because he pissed in the pie for the entire Intelligence Community.