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[SalmonGod]

it indicates that the level of dissentable material just isn't there.  As much as conspiracy theorists like to think that we live in a totalitarian state that has such a well developed business plan that it can forsee any possible attempt to undermine it, it just isn't the truth, what I am talking about in the quote is departmental disconnect, the division and distribution of decision making, as well as the structural oversight designed into these programs have created a type of government that takes itself to court.  If you were to actually get down and dirty into the mechanics of how the government is actually run, you would quickly discover that the opposite of what you stated is true.  Agencies are moved primarily by the staff, and the heads of departments mainly make policy decisions that are proposed and developed by large groups of people within a department who do extensive studies on a topic.

Then why do they care so much?

And where do proven evils, such as blatantly covered up civilian casualities, extraordinary renditions, secret support for totalitarian regimes, assassinations, etc fit into your description of operations where nobody's speaking up because nobody's doing anything wrong?

[Urist Imiknorris]

blatantly covered up civilian casualities, extraordinary renditions, secret support for totalitarian regimes, assassinations, etc

^{[citation needed]}

Seriously, please. Arguments are much better with concrete examples.

[ChairmanPoo]

^{[citation needed]}

Last time I did that a guy went berserk and stalked me through three threads.

[Aqizzar]

^{[citation needed]}

You have opened a newspaper at some point in the past ten years, right?  Turkish nationals, a whole list of terror suspects, the money and work the U.S. gives Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, drone strikes, so on and so forth.

[MrWiggles]

He doesn't need to provide them; lets take it as true.  That yes, it does happen. That, yes it is horrible.

It however, doesn't mean that the entire government is in favor of it, or even aware of it. It doesn't mean that it happens frequently.

There can be self contain pockets of, bad judgement, corruption  and heck, even conspiracy of nefarious purposes.

This is leading itself into a generation fallacy in part. Just because, it can happen or does, doesn't meant that it is, or always happening. It doesn't mean that its being done with permission, or awareness of the government body at large.

And, these instances should be curved and stopped as much as possible. I don't think you can ever make it a zero occurrence though.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

It is actually pretty easy to make a deadman email.  You prepare the message, and it will be sent in X time if you dont connect to your email.

Also, the swedish rape charges screams smokeschreen. From the info i got , the rape victim is a known 'raging' feminist wich distribute accusation like candy.

Really, i wish my country had more info leaked! Something major enough that the populace would finally pay attention to their country politics. It sickens me how people cant lift their nose from the base thing to try and participate in the society that makes em live.

[SalmonGod]

blatantly covered up civilian casualities, extraordinary renditions, secret support for totalitarian regimes, assassinations, etc

^{[citation needed]}

Umm... seriously?  Ok.

covered up civilian casualties

winter soldier testimonies... wikileaks...

extraordinary renditions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition_by_the_United_States#Example_cases

Should be common knowledge

secret support for totalitarian regimes

How about the Dirty Wars in South America?  Quite thoroughly proven that they happened to at least some extent through declassified documents.  Chosmky, even if you don't agree with his views, has some extensively researched material on the subject.  I haven't read it myself, but Confessions of an Economic Hitman also has a lot to say on the subject, I've heard.

assassinations

Do I seriously need to prove that political assassinations happen?  That's getting kind of absurd.

I'll throw another one on.  How about the blatant lying to the public to gather support for a war?  Agree with the war itself and its outcomes or not, it's common knowledge that the public was misled in many ways.


The thing is most of what we learn outside of the occassional defector or leaked information comes from declassified documents.  They admit to most everything eventually, but very quietly and only after it no longer matters.

[Renault]

Also, the swedish rape charges screams smokeschreen. From the info i got , the rape victim is a known 'raging' feminist wich distribute accusation like candy.

Spelling and grammar aside, be very careful with that line of thinking. First, I don't think the victims were "raging" feminists; the rape victim was actually a member of Brotherhood, a social-democrat, Christian group sponsoring his stay. Even if she were, though, that shouldn't matter. Feminists can be raped too.
It may be a smokescreen. Let the courts decide.

[Urist Imiknorris]

<things>

I'm sorry, I didn't really need the citations, I just like being pointed to more info. In this case, I didn't know about the convictions in the Abu Omar case. Good for Italy.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Also, the swedish rape charges screams smokeschreen. From the info i got , the rape victim is a known 'raging' feminist wich distribute accusation like candy.

Spelling and grammar aside, be very careful with that line of thinking. First, I don't think the victims were "raging" feminists; the rape victim was actually a member of Brotherhood, a social-democrat, Christian group sponsoring his stay. Even if she were, though, that shouldn't matter. Feminists can be raped too.
It may be a smokescreen. Let the courts decide.

It's not the feminist thing, it's the thow accusation like candy that bother me.

[Renault]

Yeah, I didn't see that either. Where did you read she levels such charges?

[ChairmanPoo]

The charges are that he supposedly had sex with them without a condom "without their consent". And that he willingly broke a condom. They formulated the accusation when they met each other and found out that he was bedding both of them at the same time. Which kindof arouses suspicions as to their motive.

I sort of wonder how this kind of accusation goes. I mean, how do you go around proving someone did or did not such a thing?

[SalmonGod]

Also, the swedish rape charges screams smokeschreen. From the info i got , the rape victim is a known 'raging' feminist wich distribute accusation like candy.

Spelling and grammar aside, be very careful with that line of thinking. First, I don't think the victims were "raging" feminists; the rape victim was actually a member of Brotherhood, a social-democrat, Christian group sponsoring his stay. Even if she were, though, that shouldn't matter. Feminists can be raped too.
It may be a smokescreen. Let the courts decide.

It's not the feminist thing, it's the thow accusation like candy that bother me.

If I'm understanding things correctly, the girls don't even want to press rape charges.  They just want to force him to be tested for STDs.  They're simply using the nuances of swedish legal definitions of rape to make this happen.  I don't really believe that this was orchestrated, just convenient.  I'm sure there wouldn't have been such massive effort for anyone else in the world to help these two tragic female victims.  It's the extent to which this has been taken that is plainly politically motivated.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Some 12 years old . Ill find back the dox and-

and voila

One i'm talking is Anna Ardin. Mostly about her blog post about vengeance and all that.

http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2010/08/strangest-blog-thread-yet-on-swedish.html

Really, if a swede is around, it would be helpfull of him to try and get more.

[SalmonGod]

It however, doesn't mean that the entire government is in favor of it, or even aware of it. It doesn't mean that it happens frequently.

There can be self contain pockets of, bad judgement, corruption  and heck, even conspiracy of nefarious purposes.

This is leading itself into a generation fallacy in part. Just because, it can happen or does, doesn't meant that it is, or always happening. It doesn't mean that its being done with permission, or awareness of the government body at large.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileaks-iraqi-civilian-deaths-higher-reported/story?id=11953723

The government denied for years that it kept these records, and here they are.  And I'm pretty sure I've read that tons of people had access to these documents, which took several years to be exposed to the public.  And it's been going on every day for a pretty long time.

This is hierarchy.  Plain and simple.  Conspiracy by a few.  Complacency by a majority.  Well not entirely complacency.  The majority of people only play their own small part and see a tiny portion of the bigger picture.  They see a little bit they might disapprove of here and there, but not enough to throw away their lives exposing it.  Those high up on the ladder should have a pretty good idea of what's going on, though.

And, these instances should be curved and stopped as much as possible. I don't think you can ever make it a zero occurrence though.

A very anarchist statement.  Not trying to derail the thread with a debate about anarchy.  I will not say anymore about it.  Just saying.  This is a perfect summary of a large part of why I'm an anarchist.