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[Sir Pseudonymous]

Spoiler: First one (click to show/hide)

1) And? You believe any foreign power should be allowed to waltz in and accuse soldiers of crimes outside their own jurisdiction? Crimes committed inside their jurisdiction are a different story, though a nation should still act to protect its people from the legal systems of other countries, since they can hardly be guaranteed a fair trial when they're an outsider who can't even understand the language they're being tried in.

2) Yeah, contractors are scum. That's news?

3) You mean, a potential trivial but scary-sounding situation (that ultimately didn't happen) wasn't broadcast to the news to harp on about how we're all going to die and such bullshit? Shocking!

4) So, the German government totally said they didn't give a shit, but then publicly claimed to for the publicity? The fuck does that have to do with the US?

5) Again, protecting one's own from foreign powers, the right thing to do.

Spoiler: Second one (click to show/hide)

1) Are you aware of what intelligence agencies actually do? (They gather as much information that might conceivably be of use as they can; the term "intelligence agency" should really be a dead giveaway for that...) Because that sort of shit is what they fucking do.

2-3) Are you aware what diplomacy is? It's not just sitting around a table jacking off, it involves, you know, manipulating people who don't agree with you into doing what you want.

4) The hell is a gas leak the least bit similar to an oil rig exploding because derp poorly regulated contractors?

Spoiler: Third one (click to show/hide)

1) Don't know the first thing about the context of that, nor do I particularly care about British politics.

Spoiler: Forth one (click to show/hide)

1) You mean a corrupt government does corrupt things!?!?!

2) So it's the west's fault that the remnants of the Soviet Union were seized by corrupt KGB officials who now have close ties to the mafia? It's plain as day the Russian government is corrupt to the core, but we can't exactly waltz in and have them all hanged for it, seeing as how they're a sovereign nation with an actual military and everything, not a two-bit dictator like Saddam Hussein who falls over if we so much as stare menacingly in his general direction.

3) Yep, Saudi Arabia is the real enemy. Open secret, just like the Russia thing. Should have invaded them instead of Iraq, but their regime has close ties to our former government, and we couldn't exactly up and depose them now, could we?

4) And? There should be more medical trials done in third world countries. The locals get proper treatment and money, and we get better medicines faster. It's win/win for everyone but the paranoid "vaccines gave my baby autism" crowd. Actually, it's a win for them too, because they get to spew inflammatory gibberish, which is their only joy in life apparently.

5) You already said that one.

So, out of that, only a couple of things were actually important, and both of those widely known prior to the leak. Thanks for providing the information I needed to prove that point, would have been a bitch trying to track it all down with my shitty internet connection.

[Sowelu]

"Oh, I'ma get them militaries by stealing all these random messages sent by people who were not them to people who were also not them and sending them to a random third party!"

This whole 'dumb speak' thing for words you put in manning's mouth  is kind of undermining any respect I have for your opinions on the matter (and I think upthread Assange got the same treatment). Why do you do it? I understand you might think his opinions are dumb and all, but if you're going to put words in his mouth, why not make it so I can read them clearly?

Those are asides I write to drive home whatever point I just made by highlighting the absurdity of the actions I'm condemning. Ignore them if you like, it won't remove too much from my argument.

Personally I find them incredibly annoying regardless of who does it, too, whether it's in-person or online.  Every discussion is better without dumb-speak.

[Bill the dwarf]

Whoa.
Where did this huge 50 page argument come from?

[Aklyon]

...from the last 50 pages?

[Urist is dead tome]

He's gotcha there Bill!

But for reals this thread is going nowhere slowly.

Does any one know if a new batch of news is out about Wikileaks.

[Aklyon]

I know that there was an article in TIME that Assange was winning due to how many mirrors there were of WikiLeaks.

[Mipe]

Reading Sir Pseudonymous's statements makes me believe that he is one sad individual indeed. Maybe we should send him humanitarian aid package containing bubblewrap.

[Phmcw]

Whatever you wan pseudo, but I'm not making this up, If I pointed them it's because these are violation of law and of international law. Beside the argument about jurisdiction doesn't hold : the kidnapping happened in Germany (that one I'm sure) and in Spain (not sure but it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't, as you said, European countries aren't too found about investigating hing outside their border, even though some of hem pretend to have universal jurisdiction, like Belgium.)

You may argue that it was necessary, but it's against the law, and you don't have much chance to get international opinion to agree.

Also, the "other" and "Britain" paragraph refer to revelation that are annoying for other countries, not America.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Whatever you wan pseudo, but I'm not making this up, If I pointed them it's because these are violation of law and of international law. Beside the argument about jurisdiction doesn't hold : the kidnapping happened in Germany (that one I'm sure)

I didn't argue jurisdiction there, only that it is the german government lying to the people in that case (just from your words, it doesn't sound like much pressure was required to get them to come to that conclusion, since I assume that'd be something you'd be going on about too).

and in Spain (not sure but it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't, as you said, European countries aren't too found about investigating hing outside their border, even though some of hem pretend to have universal jurisdiction, like Belgium.)

You just said that it happened in Baghdad...


Countries have a responsibility to protect their citizens. Which includes protecting them from facing kangaroo courts held in foreign countries and in a language they don't speak. If there is actual evidence, and it is a crime in their own country, then they should be tried in their own country, where they can be assured a fair trial.

[Phmcw]

    and in Spain (not sure but it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't, as you said, European countries aren't too found about investigating hing outside their border, even though some of hem pretend to have universal jurisdiction, like Belgium.)

You just said that it happened in Baghdad...

Yup, I got thing mixed up. Well it's still obstruction to an legitimate inquiry,. For the German thing, as I said, It's because the us purely and simply kidnapped an Innocent suspect, and without any kind of warrant , the lack of inquiry is an embarrassment for the Germain, not the US.

Edit : WOW, and right now, an huge one on France. An affair of corruption with a possible involvment from the President himself. If this one is true, Manning deserve a medal.

In French : http://www.leparisien.fr/flash-actualite-politique/wikileaks-des-detournements-de-fonds-par-bongo-auraient-profite-a-des-partis-francais-29-12-2010-1206492.php

[Outcast Orange]

Edit : WOW, and right now, an huge one on France. An affair of corruption with a possible involvment from the President himself. If this one is true, Manning deserve a medal.

Link please?

[Virex]

Interesting new development: Morgan Tsvangirai, prime minister of Zimbabwe and political opponent of Robert Mugabe, the de facto dictator of Zimbabwe may be put to trail for treason based upon the wikileak documents^link.

[Aklyon]

Zimbabwe has both a prime minister AND a dictator?

[Leafsnail]

Zimbabwe has both a prime minister AND a dictator?

Yeah.  There's something of a coalition in place where the opposition gets nominal power in return for not actually being on the ballot at the last election.

Incidentally, if violating random people's privacies and manipulating people is standard procedure for the US government, I think it's good that we at least know that now.

[Phmcw]

The French thing is getting big. I would be delighted to finally see Sarkozy and Chirac finally in prison (this is at least the fifth case of corruption ported to a tribunal against them). That would also give de facto Assange and Manning the rank of hero in France.