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[Vactor]

While i don't see there being too much of an moral issue about the leaked cables, as they did little to harm the uninvolved and innocent.   Aside from exposing some of the politicking, and being detrimental to international diplomatic trust, they are rather mundane, putting off the record common knowledge into print.

I do take rather severe issue with some of wikileaks' past actions, such as publishing the names of afghani civilians who were willing to risk their lives to assist american forces by offering information about local taliban.  Whatever you think of american foreign policy, i think it can be agreed on that it was an immoral action by wikileaks to freely and indiscriminately identify them.

For me, that has cemented wikileaks as an ignoble organization promoting it's founder's policital agenda rather than the service of mankind.

[IronyOwl]

I do take rather severe issue with some of wikileaks' past actions, such as publishing the names of afghani civilians who were willing to risk their lives to assist american forces by offering information about local taliban.  Whatever you think of american foreign policy, i think it can be agreed on that it was an immoral action by wikileaks to freely and indiscriminately identify them.

I must have missed this. I heard officials claiming this might happen, but I never heard anything about it actually getting released. Link?

[Aqizzar]

Ditto here.  I certainly believe that it happened, but I'd like to see the actual information.  Supposedly, Wikileaks consults with professional journalists to edit out information that could harm the easily harmable, but that sounds like a hopeless task even if true.

[nenjin]

For me, that has cemented wikileaks as an ignoble organization promoting it's founder's policital agenda rather than the service of mankind.

I'm somewhat in agreement. While I respect the rebel cause, and Assange claims they reviewed documents for "real" threats to people's safety, some of the releases have been harmful. (Afghan civilian names.) Printing what the US government considers vital targets, while not that damaging, is just not exercising common sense. It also seems like he just has it out for America, in particular. It's like disliking someone you know, getting your hands on their cellphone, and mass mailing all their texts to everyone. It's just a dick move. So far very little has come out that truly makes the US look bad. The wires are what you'd find in ANY diplomatic telegraph about host nations and important politic figures. It's just not "polite" conversation.

Unlike the Afghan papers, there is a lot less here I felt we truly needed to know, as informed citizenry. I find the diplomatic details fascinating, but I don't feel safer, more informed or more in control of my own government. I think Assange has just decided that as "star" of the international stage, America deserves to have revealed whatever he can unearth.

If in his mining he manages to find something important, I'll thank him for it sincerely. But as to his overall efforts, I'd prefer he not release every document he gets his hands on, just because he can. He starts coming across as le'enfant provocateur.

[Earthquake Damage]

Unlike the Afghan papers, there is a lot less here I felt we truly needed to know, as informed citizenry. I find the diplomatic details fascinating, but I don't feel safer, more informed or more in control of my own government. I think Assange has just decided that as "star" of the international stage, America deserves to have revealed whatever he can unearth.

I don't know about his past actions, but AFAIK it could have been as much petty tantrum as anti-American agenda.  The government did pressure him not to release them, after all, so "You can't tell me what to do!" and all that.

[Akura]

If you work at a bank, and you give some criminals the vault combination and they steal a bunch of cash that they couldn't otherwise have obtained, are you responsible?  Yes.  Yes you are, you're an accomplice.

Even if you give it to them because they have a gun to your head?

Haven't really been following along with this, but that statement kinda stuck out to me. It irks me to think that a person would be guilty of a crime if they were a victim of someone else's crime, if they used the victim as part of that crime. Would you arrest a person who was being used as a human shield because they were in the way of the police arresting the criminal holding them? I might just be blowing this out of context, though, and if so, just ignore my ranting.

[Aqizzar]

If you work at a bank, and you give some criminals the vault combination and they steal a bunch of cash that they couldn't otherwise have obtained, are you responsible?  Yes.  Yes you are, you're an accomplice.

Even if you give it to them because they have a gun to your head?

Haven't really been following along with this, but that statement kinda stuck out to me. It irks me to think that a person would be guilty of a crime if they were a victim of someone else's crime, if they used the victim as part of that crime. Would you arrest a person who was being used as a human shield because they were in the way of the police arresting the criminal holding them? I might just be blowing this out of context, though, and if so, just ignore my ranting.

Since I pretty much started the argument that line came from, I'm going to forestall any more argument over it, by giving Sowelu the benefit of the doubt and insert a "willingly" in front of giving out the combination.

[Leafsnail]

It's not just taking it out of context, it's completely changing the metaphor.

Wikileaks never held a gun to the government's head and made them put all their apparently highly confidential super-secrets in stupid places.

[Akura]

Oh. Well in that case:

just ignore my ranting.

[Mechanoid]

Someone needs a fucking spanking, and wikileaks has the paddles.

Honestly, can you see who's at fault first?

Diplomat A and B meet.
Diplomats part ways.
Diplomat A says something stupid about B.
'Something stupid' was recorded on paper /audio /video.
'Something stupid' is covered up and labled secret for the diplomatically hurtful nature of it.
Someone finds secret of 'something stupid' and leaks it.
Everyone bitches about someone leaking the something stupid, especially diplomat A and A's country.
Someone who leaked the "secret" gets called out for spying/treason.
Shitstorm, because no one has the mental stability or maturity to risk being called weak on the world stage.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was the third line where everything went wrong. This is how it SHOULD have been handled, like a damn adult does:
Diplomat A and B meet.
Diplomats part ways.
Diplomat A says something stupid about B.
Person in charge of Diplomat A sees 'something stupid' calls Diplomat A to office
"You're going to apologize for this shit and hope nothing more shitty happens"
Diplomat A's comments are disclosed to B and B's country, and that A is being punished accordingly for their stupidity.
Hopefully, Diplomat B and country B doesn't get too pissy and will appreciate the candidness and sincerity.

That's how you fucking deal with this situation. Nothing like how it's being dealt with now.

[SalmonGod]

Someone needs a fucking spanking, and wikileaks has the paddles.

Honestly, can you see who's at fault first?

Diplomat A and B meet.
Diplomats part ways.
Diplomat A says something stupid about B.
'Something stupid' was recorded on paper /audio /video.
'Something stupid' is covered up and labled secret for the diplomatically hurtful nature of it.
Someone finds secret of 'something stupid' and leaks it.
Everyone bitches about someone leaking the something stupid, especially diplomat A and A's country.
Someone who leaked the "secret" gets called out for spying/treason.
Shitstorm, because no one has the mental stability or maturity to risk being called weak on the world stage.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was the third line where everything went wrong. This is how it SHOULD have been handled, like a damn adult does:
Diplomat A and B meet.
Diplomats part ways.
Diplomat A says something stupid about B.
Person in charge of Diplomat A sees 'something stupid' calls Diplomat A to office
"You're going to apologize for this shit and hope nothing more shitty happens"
Diplomat A's comments are disclosed to B and B's country, and that A is being punished accordingly for their stupidity.
Hopefully, Diplomat B and country B doesn't get too pissy and will appreciate the candidness and sincerity.

That's how you fucking deal with this situation. Nothing like how it's being dealt with now.

I like the irony in authorities throwing temper tantrums over this kind of information being distributed, when they've all been pushing harder and harder and harder over the last 10 years for ability to collect any information they want about anybody and do whatever the hell they want with it... to the point of lining people up in front of cameras that strip them nude if they want to travel.  We're violently forced to abandon privacy and dignity and anyone who says a word about it can be put on a potential domestic terrorist watch list, yet someone strips them of their shallow facades and they all start calling for executions.

But their contradictions are to be expected.  What never ceases to amaze me is how many ordinary people will defend their behavior.

[Sowelu]

Uh...Diplomats *HAVE* to be candid with their departments.  PERIOD.  If they see something important, even if it's politically incorrect to say it, THEY MUST SAY IT.  Forcing them to write in a politically-correct fashion, with politically-correct omissions, can be dangerous.

[Duke 2.0]

I like the irony in authorities throwing temper tantrums over this kind of information being distributed, when they've all been pushing harder and harder and harder over the last 10 years for ability to collect any information they want about anybody and do whatever the hell they want with it... to the point of lining people up in front of cameras that strip them nude if they want to travel.  We're violently forced to abandon privacy and dignity and anyone who says a word about it can be put on a potential domestic terrorist watch list, yet someone strips them of their shallow facades and they all start calling for executions.

But their contradictions are to be expected.  What never ceases to amaze me is how many ordinary people will defend their behavior.

Hey guys how is it going in this threa-
WOAH
Dammit, who oiled up this slope? It's slippery as all hell.

[Aqizzar]

As the king of super-grippy nonsliding boots, I'm willing to say that he's not being unreasonable.  Bombastic maybe, but he's not technically wrong, and it's a reasonable sentiment.

And what did I say about tossing around the term "slippery slope" where it doesn't really belong?  Or heck, using it at all.  "Camelnose" is where it's at.

[Bauglir]

Dammit, who oiled up this slope? It's slippery as all hell.

The slope isn't all I've oiled up, if you catch my meaning.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm saying I got everybody a coupon for Jiffy Lube.