Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Argembarger]

Other M is only canonical if you allow it to be.

I won't.

[GTM]

So if Metroid was made in the US or Canada, a lot of these arguments would be valid.  But it's a Japanese game made by Japanese people.

Things to consider:
-Japanese gender roles and cultural values aren't the same as North America
-Japanese storytelling conventions, pacing, etc may operate by different customs
-Japanese artists - and really, artists in general - tend to play fast and loose with canon and continuity

"But it's different from the old games!"
-the old games were constrained by disk space, conventions of the time, etc
-the author's style may have changed due to changes in his life and career

[Cthulhu]

So casual misogyny is okay because it's Japanese?

[beorn080]

Umm, yeah.

It was given to an entirely different company to produce. Her personality was far more fleshed out in Japan then here, and over there she was an even bigger badass, not a submissive girl. Japan got far more of her backstory in comics and such, and this is a complete reversal of her character.

Then there's the fact that it was made by a japanese company every time. Its not like THIS time it went from american companies to a japanese one. It was ALWAYS made there, so you can't claim culture with such a massive change in personality.

[GTM]

Even in Super Metroid, when Samus was a 6'3 200 lb (google for source) Sigourney Weaver type, there was the whole metroid mommy thing, and the faster you beat the game the more naked she got.

I don't want to pontificate on the new game since I haven't played it - it very well may be misogynistic - but let's not romance the past either.

[qwertyuiopas]

In all of the earlier games(at least the ones I have played, and probably the ones I read about at one time or another), Samus' gender was irrelevant until the credits. (exception: Zero mission, to a small extent, and flashes that caused her face to reflect in the visor in the prime games. But still, irrelevant to the gameplay and plot.) From what I have read, other m (Not Metroid:...) does not fit that style. It's like making a Legend of Zelda game where Link is more talkative than Navi! Unthinkable!

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Even in Super Metroid, when Samus was a 6'3 200 lb (google for source) Sigourney Weaver type, there was the whole metroid mommy thing, and the faster you beat the game the more naked she got.

I don't want to pontificate on the new game since I haven't played it - it very well may be misogynistic - but let's not romance the past either.

Reading that essay, the past is just a part of it, and this game can stand on it's own as misogynistic.

[Tellemurius]

ok is this game worth it for the funz or not?

[IronyOwl]

This wasn't a change. This was a complete derailment of her character. Just the Ridley scene alone. She's faced down Ridley between 2 and 4 times, depending on how certain games work into canon, before this game. Each time, she stared the bastard down, and curbstomped him. Granted, this was the days of the NES and SNES, and there wasn't too much story, but even in the side stories she never collapsed into a little girl state. She stood up, blasted the heck out of him, and took no quarter. THIS time, shes gonna collapse and start crying? If that occured to say, Master Chief, would that be a simple character change?

No, that'd be Bungie fucking up, which would mostly be business as usual. It's just like if they release a terrible game in what used to be an awesome franchise- if it's an isolated incident, never happened. If it's the new trend, you enjoy it in spite of that particular issue or you don't, in which case never happened.

Other M is only canonical if you allow it to be.

I won't.

This, essentially.

[sluissa]

IronyOwl is a troll, stop responding to them.

As for the article, it's not too long, it gets the point across. I tend to agree with what it's saying and it does make sense to me.

[Sowelu]

Yeah...Having not played the game myself, the article had a lot of ground to cover, and I was horrified every step of the way.

It's non-canon.  It's twisted fanfic from that dark corner of the internet that you shudder and pretend doesn't exist.

[dogstile]

Ugh. I don't care if he's offended, he needs to cut that down, he takes way to long to make the points he's trying to make.

I don't see why people got so offended. I know plenty of people in real life who respect and do anything people who don't exactly like them tell them too. Its common enough to be excusable. That, plus I don't really care enough about the game to let it bother me and ACK I HAVE COLLEGE IN LIKE 10 MINUTES I'LL FINISH THIS ANOTHER TIME IF I REMEMBER

Here's a summary.  The article basically lays out in fairly compelling detail how the relationship between Samus and Adam is consistently portrayed as similar to an abused housewife and her abusive husband and that it seems to be romanticized as a healthy or even possibly ideal relationship.

Oh you get me wrong. I read the whole thing. I understand what he's trying to say, its just not as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be.

[ductape]

some women like it rough...
*ducks*

[GaelicVigil]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement at the end:

I suspect the unfortunate truth is that the glorification of abusive relationships and disempowered female characters has become prevalent in modern pop culture. Look at books like Twilight or Hush, Hush.
...
But the perverse model of male “heroism” and female submission embodied by Adam and Samus in this game needs to be called into question, because it is all around us and we’d do well to start thinking about it.

Okay, I know nothing about Hush, Hush, but I have to question his argument with Twilight and "modern pop culture" in general. 

Who really was the abusive one in Twilight?  Wasn't it Bella who stomped all over the hearts of team Edward and team Jacob because she could never make up her mind about who she wanted the most?  Wasn't it Edward who had the debilitating weakness where he constantly had to bury his desire to have Bella for dinner?  Wasn't it Bella's dad that was constantly getting the middle-finger from his bratty, spoiled daughter, even after he repeatedly came to her rescue and put up with her?

And, if anything, Feminism and "girl power" has become far, far more prevalent in modern pop culture than at any time in history.  I can't remember the last time I saw a movie with a true helpless maiden in need of saving.  Name nearly every block-buster, and there is a female kicking butt at the top, or near top, of the list of cast members.  Hermoine (HP), Eowyn (LotR), Trinity (Matrix), Neytiri (Avatar), Mikaela (Transformers), and on and on...I can't think of a movie I've seen lately that had a girl who was helpless. 

If anything, Other M stands out as something fresh.  I think pop-culture needs more Chivalry, women who just want to be swept off their feet.  I think that's why I've been so into reading A Song of Ice and Fire lately - George RR Martin doesn't fall into the current of politically correct and he's seen a lot of success from it (including a new HBO series come out next spring).

[dwarfguy2]

Does the movie adaption of Coraline count?