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Author Topic: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?  (Read 7327 times)

sneakey pete

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2010, 01:51:40 am »

Simply put? If you manage to master the damn thing, bam! Infinite water! They can also make an awesome sponge if you need to drain the water off something, or can even be manipulated into deadly freezing traps in the right biome.

Yes, but now we have caverns that do basically all those things, but don't block you from precious stone, what's the point?

Oh and it alsomight be that i've had some bad experiences with 4zlevel+ aquifiers on non freezing biomes...

Edit: oh didn't realise that pages 2 and 3 existed.
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Drawde

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2010, 03:26:58 am »

I LIKE volcanoes and multi-layer aquifers. guess why  ;D

(HINT: the trick is that the stone around the volcano is always dry. dig through that, lower, and PRESTO! infinite magma AND water! plus if it's a good day there might will most likely be lots of ore.)

try it sometime. remember to set volcano x-variance high in worldgen  ;)
Not always.  Just started a .18 fort with a volcano and a multi-level aquifier.  And found out that aquifers can extend all the way around a volcano now  :P

I don't mind single-layer aquifiers.  As mentioned they don't hurt your FPS as much as rivers, and creatures can't get through the breaches.  Dwarves love the waterfall in my dining halls, and a nice source of mud for my farms.  It does take a bit longer to access them though, so it can be tough if you need defenses NOW.
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Muz

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2010, 03:38:28 am »

I hate them. I wouldn't settle anywhere near an aquifer.
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duckInferno

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2010, 04:07:35 am »

10% of the time: ooh, aquifier.  I get some awesome idea about punching a cave in through it and using it for infinite water/drainage.  Fort inevitably looks somewhat ugly, I lose interest, move onto...

90% of the time: OMGS WHAT AN AWESOME SITE oh there's an aquifier
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Schmlok

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2010, 07:32:34 am »

You don't "need" stone to wall off your fort.

Trench will hold everything but fliers at bay.  As long as it's out of archer range you're fine.

And you could always make everything out of wood till you get down.

Taking on one aquifer level is easy, not taking on 3+ is understandable.
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puke

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2010, 07:44:32 am »

i like aquafirs but have an irrational distaste for red sand or clay.  i'll avoid embarking anywhere that has a soil layer made of red ~, since it is so similar to magma or bloodstains.
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Adamfostas

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2010, 08:40:58 am »

I quite like the first thing I do in a fortress being a cave-in, so I'm not too unhappy about aquifers. That being said, the other day I embarked on a multi-biome point, in which the mountain terrain was listed as including an aquifer. I didn't think much of it until I start digging up into the mountain to access hematite, and started getting 'Digging cancelled: damp stone detected' warnings. I looked up my miners, at the top of the stairwell heading up into the mountain, and discovered they'd dug up into an aquifer. As a consequence, the entire world flooded to the level of the aquifer.

Aquifers probably shouldn't contain infinite water, in my view...
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2010, 09:22:35 am »

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Ehm. My sympathies.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2010, 09:30:58 am »



Possibly the worst aquifers are in freezing zones, as they'll quite often ice your only miner and/or pick, and when it freezes it doesn't form a floor above the ice, making it hard to channel into again.  Even the cave-in method is safer than ice.

Solution: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=71080.0
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Corona688

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2010, 05:36:17 pm »

Simply put? If you manage to master the damn thing, bam! Infinite water! They can also make an awesome sponge if you need to drain the water off something, or can even be manipulated into deadly freezing traps in the right biome.

Rivers and such also provide infinite water without the annoyance.
Hardly "infinite".  I remember managing to drain a river during my carp farming experiments...

And they can't absorb water any faster than they produce it.  It was fun to watch my big reservoir pressure-dump into the river...  one instant almost-dry, then ***THUD***, full.

It also takes a great deal of effort to get water from a river where you want it.  I've spent years on aqueducts and pump stacks.
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Caverns also are almost certain to have some water too.
Almost.  Mine didn't.
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As for draining the water... pumping it into an aquifer is usually more difficult then other ways of getting rid of it.
pumping into an aquifer is stupidly easy.  Put water on top of an aquifer.  Bam, gone.

Aquifers also have one key advantage:  They're indoors.  Water wherever you want without having to dig a long channel for giant bats to follow and get in your hair.  If your location's terrifying enough, you might  find your dwarves all injured and dying of thirst before you can make a proper well.

I remember making my first waterwheel stack on a failed aquifer breach.  It was a lovely site with a magma pipe (40D) and sand and sedimentary rocks...  I almost abandoned when the breach failed until I realized there was a constant flow, around which I built a beast pushing thousands of urist running a massive central pump stack.  I could flood or drain any level on command, filled the lakes which otherwise dried every summer, mashed garbage or transported (small) objects with the water conveyor, utilized some surplus power to create a magma whirlpool...  I forgot all about the magma for several game years.  I've never managed to make that good a waterfall again even on purpose, let alone by accident...

No river would've had enough water to do all that and turn your waterwheels.  You get a quick burst until it drains a little locally, and then, even if your wheels aren't stopped, you're only sucking mud...  Even underground cavern map-edges, 3 tiles away vertically and pressured by 5 z-levels above, don't seem to have the same 'oomph' as an aquifer when you really want lots of water.

And when you do, it pays to remember that aquifer tiles only produce water at the edges, not in open space.  You'll get a lot more out by making a weird feathery edge than you'll get by channelling out vast areas.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 05:58:00 pm by Corona688 »
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Smackinjuice

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2010, 07:00:36 pm »

I modded out aquifers, but not for the wrong reasons; but for the right.  If I wanted to avoid using oceans or underground rivers because of scary monsters, then why don't I just go play The Sims.

There are not any dwarfs on The Sims, they are racist to my kind.  Currently adding in mod to put in characters from sims, that will spawn with in embark. A bunch of human's that just have a random above ground fort around the embark.  They they have chairs, tables, a pool, study rooms, even a garbage chute.  No weapons, cause there's no violence in "The Sims" except when one of the human's get's mad and slaps the other human for cheating.

Mod will be out 2012
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MrWiggles

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2010, 09:12:23 pm »

My last Aquifer was on a freezing biome, with no wood, and mineable stone.

So, what I had to do was make open pit mine shafts down in order to penetrate the the double aquifer, and get to the stones.
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Smackinjuice

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2010, 09:17:27 pm »

How do you penetrate aquifers? cause that's the real reason i took them out rofl.  But without collapsing as I know that works already. 
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Kanil

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2010, 09:50:29 pm »

I dislike aquifers, because they're ugly. Breaches usually look bad. I want my fort to be pretty.

They're otherwise not especially annoying. Not like caverns. Don't get me started on those fucking things...
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

malroth

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Re: I'm curious: Does anyone actually LIKE Aquifers?
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2010, 09:55:45 pm »

How do you penetrate aquifers? cause that's the real reason i took them out rofl.  But without collapsing as I know that works already. 

Ways I know of to get past aquifiers

1)  get lucky with multiple biomes or non porous mineral deposits to allow a water free path to deeper layers
2)  Drop natural walls into a channeled out pool to form a water proof section you can tunnel through
3)  Pumps to drain out a small area  and masons to smooth the newly exposed walls so they no longer produce water
4)  Channel out a pool,  fill with magma.
5)  Drain into another aquifer.
6)  Channel out a pool,  expose to freezing tempratures, Channel and construct a way through the ice.


That being said i'm not quite skilled enough to deal with multiple layer aquifers with any level of confidence,   I'm not a fan of them but won't leave a embark just because of a 1 layer aquifer.  I'd probably be a lot more comfortable with them if there was a reliable way of getting stone on aquifier maps without having to breach your first season.

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