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[Zathras]

I refused to commit to an opinion on Jokerman because everyone else seemed to have made up their mind - he was getting lynched unless there was a major turnaround, and from what I actually read of him he wasn't worth attempting to achieve such a turnaround.

Bullshit. He was hanged with three votes. Three. Hell, ten minutes before deadline there was a quadruple tie at first place with two votes each. There was no wagon, no "major turnaround" to be had. If you'd voted him, he'd have hanged for sure. If you'd voted Native or Toaster, you'd have a real chance of change the lynchee for the day. That "major turnaround" stuff is a blatant lie.

And, "from what I actually read of him he wasn't worth attempting to achieve"... could you be less vague? What was your opinion of him at that point? What had you actually read? Why do you still refuse to commit?

Pandar, please state your opinions on Toaster, Native, Ottofar and Arg. What do you make of Ottofar's revive? Do you plan to Multidraw again tonight if not blocked?

[NativeForeigner]

Zathras:

Zathras, while I'm interested in hearing from the newly-revived Mr. Person, why are you trying to wave off the possibility of a revivocult? Even though the chance is small, there's still the possibility. And that would mean that you would be a member. Don't you think it would be safer to have someone mass-block again to prevent a mafia kill and then lynch one of the revivees? That would tell us for sure whether or not there's a revivocult and could prevent problems later.

[Zathras]

Org, Nirur Torir, Zathras, Ottofar, and everybody else (got lazy): What are your feelings about Toaster's roleclaim and the fact that I can't actually back up his claim despite supposedly being his target?

The claim seems plausible, but still looks like a scum role to me. This added to his D1 play still leave him in the "likely scum" column for me.

Zathras, while I'm interested in hearing from the newly-revived Mr. Person, why are you trying to wave off the possibility of a revivocult? Even though the chance is small, there's still the possibility. And that would mean that you would be a member. Don't you think it would be safer to have someone mass-block again to prevent a mafia kill and then lynch one of the revivees? That would tell us for sure whether or not there's a revivocult and could prevent problems later.

Interesting, which reminds me: according to Nirur and Pandar, there was no mass block (only a block of Pandar), but there was no mafiakill; what do people make of this? Was it Toaster's auto-block, deliberate noaction, or something else?

As for your questions: a) mostly because I was revived without becoming cult, so it seems plausible to me that it's not the case. I'm not opposed to people considering or investigating the possibility, I just don't see it as likely. There's something else going on, but I don't know what. And b) I don't know that a mass-block is easy to repeat, or we'd do it every night and just lynch the scummiest every day based on day-play; scum wouldn't stand a chance without night actions. But maybe people feel like playing with haikus again? I'm game if you guys are.

Zathras:  It's called Meltdown- why do you want to know the name?

Just trying to get you to give us all the data for an informed decision. You didn't confirm if it was a permanent effect on your target (though it seems clear from context it is, please do confirm).

As for Native, my (fairly unreliable this game) gut tells me he's scum.  I've said my piece on him several times, but I can rererepost it if you really want me to.

Dude, if you haven't figured it out, your case on him D1 and D2 depended on Joker being town, yes? He wasn't. I don't want you to rererepost it, I want you to rethink it, and then present a fresh perspective that takes into account Joker's role. Or if you think Native was bussing him, please say it (though I'd find it rather unlikely). Or if you think he's a different scum team, likewise. I want to see a fresh case, not a rererepost, or a gut feel.


PPE: I know, I was typing these when Pandar's continued bullshit about Jokerman just jumped at me and demanded a response.

[NativeForeigner]

Interesting, which reminds me: according to Nirur and Pandar, there was no mass block (only a block of Pandar), but there was no mafiakill; what do people make of this? Was it Toaster's auto-block, deliberate noaction, or something else?

As for your questions: a) mostly because I was revived without becoming cult, so it seems plausible to me that it's not the case. I'm not opposed to people considering or investigating the possibility, I just don't see it as likely. There's something else going on, but I don't know what. And b) I don't know that a mass-block is easy to repeat, or we'd do it every night and just lynch the scummiest every day based on day-play; scum wouldn't stand a chance without night actions. But maybe people feel like playing with haikus again? I'm game if you guys are.

Huh, I had assumed there was a mass block because of the lack of a NK. Now that I think about it, I didn't get a blockage PM. Perhaps someone got lucky and blocked scum which would be very nice if they could do it again.

A) But how do we know you're not cult? Or Mr. Person for that matter. I'm not sure any of us can answer this question right now, which worries me. The dead being constantly revived just doesn't settle well with me, which is why I suggest considering lynching one of the revivees to see the flip. (Brutal, yes, but the only sure way to know).

B) I'm down for another haiku, but I won't commit until I know it won't just be a few of us spewing haikus again to little effect.

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Well, those revive are somewhat creeping me out. On the contrary to Zath, i believe the revivocult is more than likely. Basically, if you get revived as townies, this game is basic auto-town win. Unless the scum find the reviver, kill him without him being protected nor blocked , all that before day 3 or so (since after that the revived hold majority vote, and well they can just revive the lynchee anyway) the game is uninnable for scum. Getting revived with old aligment is right out, why would a town-reviver revive a SK ? Only realist outcome i see is a reviver that bring back people back under his control or a cult.

I would put pandar as the master of that cult. Zathras diligent hunt of Toaster is appreciated, but yet i havent seen him do much looking at Pandar wich sounds rather odd to me. Let it be clear, i have trouble with Toaster claim, i don't see how a prison thingy goes with chernobyl, and meltdown could be a gamebreaker if it is for the whole game.

Basically, i like Native idea of lynching a revivee. I'm aware it's not something to do on a whim, but that kind of information is vital, and if we dont get it soon and we are facing a necrocult it will be too late to turn the tide. In this case i would choose
Zathras since
1)His power is extremely usefull for a cult, if he still have it
2)He his a good scumhunter, yet seem way too blatant about minimising the revivecult. It strikes me as odd that an experienced player toss the possibility aside like that.
3)He implied that there may be more than 1 revive source. Thats extremely unlikely. His argument for that was a difference in the flavor text, wich is not something we should take as granted, especially under th word of one of the possible cultist. 


Finally, from what i gathered Pandar multidraw was blocked. Still, my action was apparently lost ( got no PM specifing a fail, yet got nothing from the rolepower too). Toaster, who did you target with your power ?

[Toaster]

Puppet:  As I said, I delayed Native both nights.  Incidentally, that means if there IS a revivocult, he's not the ringleader.

As for your Zath vote, you're really not paying attention, are you?  He can't have his old abilities- at least not his tri-vote.


Person:  Do you have a new alignment as well?  Do you like your new or old role better?


Zathras:  Sorry, yes, it is a permanent loss of abilities and votes.

I need to do a reread and rethink, you are correct;  I was kind of assuming I would barely have time to claim before I was hammered.  I'll do that and put down fresh thoughts.

[Pandarsenic]

Toaster, delayed or roleblocked?

[Toaster]

Delayed.  I can't control the block, and I don't even know whom it targeted.

[Nirur Torir]

Niror Torir, Professional Scummy Useless Douchebag Twat

You were for some reason desperate to prevent me from drawing everyone (what, rather target the dead for your revivecult, maybe?)

Still don't believe that I've been roleblocking every night? Or do you think that I have multiple night actions that can be simultaneously used?

I refused to commit to an opinion on Jokerman because everyone else seemed to have made up their mind - he was getting lynched unless there was a major turnaround, and from what I actually read of him he wasn't worth attempting to achieve such a turnaround.

Does this hold true since day 1? People have been asking since before Zathras died.

I'll restate my case against iff you acknowledge that going back to read stuff from earlier is unnecessary. If you don't feel like going back to read my argument against you, then I don't feel like going back to read up on whatever you might send me after from however long ago.

What nonsense. If you can't make a case against me, your top scum pick, then you should be the obvious choice of a lynch tonight for everybody.

Your main arguments against me:
1) You claimed I defended Archangel day 1
2) You claimed I was scared of your roleclaim day 2.

Most of your effort against me has been attempting to discourage me by first insulting me, then ignoring me. Make a case against me.

I would put pandar as the master of that cult.

Why? I've blocked him every night.

Spoiler: Pandarsenic questions (click to show/hide)

Nirur Torir's arguments:
[...]
2) A series of increasingly complex and improbable explanations that achieve similar results because he's desperate~

What was I desperate to do? I'd made it abundantly clear that I can roleblock you easily.

Please restate your case against me.

[Toaster]

A couple people said it was an odd power, so to clarify: the flavor on the autoblock is radiation sickness, but making the target immune to harm.

Native:   I don't know if you're supposed to get a PM.  I just asked Web, so I'll let you know when I hear back.  However, you mentioned protection, so I take it you tried to kill me?  If I do have a lingering death sentence, then I see no reason not to use my power today.  As for my target, see below.


Zathras:  My case on Native is weakened, but not destroyed.  I had three main points against him:

Passive and sideliney opening   (and prior post)
Oddball post
Flagrant reactionary vote

Point 2 is nullified by Joker's flip, but 1 and 3 are still valid.  It does lower his scummy level, but he's not out of the woods.

I'm also quite interested in Puppet.  He jumped in on my argument with Irony using my arguments.  This is after he posted a deflationary comment about said argument.  When asked to do original scumhunting by Irony, he deflects that attack back. 

Day 2 he did almost nothing, and only committed to a vote the day of the deadline.

Also, in these posts:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72355.msg1801182#msg1801182  ("As asked by Toaster")
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72355.msg1815487#msg1815487  Irony's vote
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72355.msg1860801#msg1860801  Asking me my target

Three time's he's missed some fact of the game- sign of not paying attention.

If I nuked someone right now, it'd be one of these two.  I still don't trust Irony, but not enough to consider blasting him.


Next up is a thought list on the revivocult, but I want this post down before I start that.  Questions will be forthcoming as well.

[NativeForeigner]

A couple people said it was an odd power, so to clarify: the flavor on the autoblock is radiation sickness, but making the target immune to harm.

Native:   I don't know if you're supposed to get a PM.  I just asked Web, so I'll let you know when I hear back.  However, you mentioned protection, so I take it you tried to kill me?  If I do have a lingering death sentence, then I see no reason not to use my power today.  As for my target, see below.

No, not kill, I wouldn't be so rash, even if I do think you're scum. I meant like some sort of protection from abilities.

[Ottofar]

Argem, Irony,  Arch, and MBP. I'd say Irony  or MBP.

Why?

You four are the only possibilities, and I think Argem and Arch look more mafia-esque.

[Toaster]

(Unvote Native.  See below.)

Next up:  If there is a revivocult, who is the leader?

I see Otto has reached a similar conclusion to me, but I'll go ahead and post my findings.

First, who can't be the leader, and why:

Jokerman-EXE:  Dead and flipped.
Mr.Person, Zathras:  Died and flipped, then came back.
NativeForeigner:  Delayed N1 when there was a res.
Ottofar:  Modkill for inactivity, plus revive.  I was slow sending my action N1 and got threatened with this, so I am almost positive it's because he never sent an action.
Nirur Torir and Pandarsenic:  Nirur claims to have blocked Pandar twice, and Pandar confirms he was blocked at least once.

That leaves these five:
Org
Argembarger
Archangel
MysteriousBluePuppet
IronyOwl

Org claims to have been blocked twice, but no one has fessed up to blocking him.  My auto power had to have hit someone, and it's certainly possible Org was blocked twice.  If scum tried to off him last night (he hinted at having an informational power), it'd explain the lack of a kill.  If he's telling the truth, he couldn't be the cult leader.

Archangel has demonstrated his hammer power.  This makes him unlikely in my book to be the leader, as that would require Web to USE THE SAME UNUSUAL CUSTOM ROLE TWO GAMES IN A ROW.

That leaves MBP, Irony, and Argembarger.  Personally, I say we lynch MBP and be done with him, and I can nuke one of the other two.

MBP I've done my case on.  Irony, as said, I don't trust.  Argem has been lurky and sideliney.


So!  Questions for everyone:  Were you blocked at any time N1 or N2?  Did you block Org?  Do you have any explanation for a lack of a kill last night?

Org:  Was the flavor of the two blocks the same?  If someone asked you to roleclaim, would you?


Archangel:  Are you the Webadcit?  If someone asked you to roleclaim, would you?


Argembarger (or his replacement):  Who do you think is scum?  If someone asked you to roleclaim, would you?


Irony:  Do you think it'd be better to lynch MBP, the person (please say whom) you think is most scummy, or a revivee to check for a revivocult?  If someone asked you to roleclaim, would you?


MBP:  Why aren't you paying attention?  Who is scum and why?  If someone asked you to roleclaim, would you?

[Org]

The flavour was this.

You were blocked.
Really. I will reread them, but thats what I remember.

[NativeForeigner]

Toaster: I was never blocked, but you apparently delayed me. I don't have a block. The only explanation I can think of is someone blocked scum or someone was protected. Or, I guess, scum decided to not kill anyone.