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[Zathras]

And now, a message from the 2011 New Year Welcoming Committee:

LurkerTracker^®
A very Merry Christmas, and a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one, without any fear.
War is over, if you want it. War is over now.
John Lennon and Yoko Ono in "Happy Xmas (War is over)" (1971)

Christmas is the time for looking ahead courageously through the gates of the swiftly approaching new year...
...of resolving that the coming months will reflect a kinder, more forgiving and less heedless person than mirrored in the past.

Ellen V. Morgan in "Christmas is the Time"

Archangel has 15 posts; the last 49 hours ago. Red text: Pandarsenic Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]
Argembarger has 16 posts; the last 23 hours ago. Red text: Org Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
IronyOwl has 35 posts; the last 0 hours ago. Red text: Org, Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35]
Jokerman-EXE has 26 posts; the last 30 hours ago. Red text: NativeForeigner Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26]
Mysteriousbluepuppet has 26 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: Unvote Irony Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26]
NativeForeigner has 53 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: Jokerman Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47][48][49][50][51][52][53]
Nirur Torir has 46 posts; the last 17 hours ago. Red text: Jokerman Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46]
Org has 25 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: unvote Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25]Due to the 40Kb limit, LurkerTracker continues in the next post.
EDITED to correct date (I messed up the year! how trite is that!) and header URL. I hate post editing, but it wasn't game related, and I'll eat a violation for it if needed.

[Zathras]

LurkerTracker, continued.

Ottofar has 22 posts; the last 35 hours ago. Red text: Zathras. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22]
Pandarsenic has 50 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: Unvote, vote Nirur Torir Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47][48][49][50]
Toaster has 36 posts; the last 31 hours ago. Red text: Native Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36]
Zathras has 34 posts; the last 3 hours ago. Red text: Jokerman, jokerman, jokerman Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34]

Mr.Person: dead, Wall-mart (town) has 18 posts; the last 267 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18]

Moderator has 13 posts; the last 17 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]
The Morgue: Mr.Person: dead, Wall-mart (town).

Moderator: please prod Archangel, who hasn't posted in over 36 hours.Notes:
1) I think the redtextfinder is fine now, but do tell me if you see it messing up.
2) The LurkerTracker is not yet smart enough about resurrections, role changes, or people replacing for someone else after their own death. Knowledge about when days and nights end would be nice too. Improvements on these are pending, but non-trivial. May require a major rewrite. Stay tuned... or help.
3) Until I/we figure those out, the "notes" space will be used by whimsical quotes like these:

People are so worried about what they eat between Christmas and the New Year, but really they should be worried about what they eat between the New Year and Christmas.
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." -- Ronald Reagan, 1984_{^{no shit}}
There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more. -- Woody Allen

[Argembarger]

Woo modextension, praise the Wuba.

Quick post before I travel back to college to start the new semester.

Zathras,

This post intentionally left blank.

Why? Lurkertracker mistake?

Jokerman, given our extra time, have you anything more to say? Do you plan to roleclaim if you are about to be imminently lynched? Why should we keep you around?

Something bugs me more than Jokerman though at the moment; since we have today and tomorrow to hash it out,,,

Nirur Torir.

After reading this post I have some questions I'd like you to answer.

1. Why are you tunneling Pandar to the exclusion of everything else going on around here? Don't respond "I've found scum and am attacking him", yes, this is fine, whatever. Respond why you haven't really made mention of anything or anyone else since the day started; and after roleclaiming and explaining your haiku business, you only sent out one token question to Ottofar. It looked more like a way to make yourself look like you're contributing than anything, and I don't like it. It smells scummy.

2. Do you have a case on Pandar's scumminess, because I can't see one. All I see is you freaking out about his roleclaim and trying to convince everyone he's the Antichrist. For the sake of my understanding, please lay out your case for his scumminess, rather than just his role.

3. Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why for the love of all that is good and right in the world, if you truly believe Pandar is the scum you say he is, why do you go through this big thing arguing against him, and then drop a vote on Jokerman out of nowhere? What the heck? It's like you were getting ready to throw a dart (at Pandar) and then at the last second you whip around and throw it at Jokerman. It's totally out of left field since it didn't appear you suspected him all that much beforehand.

It just looks like a blind bandwagon against someone you feel will be an easier lynch.

Like you'd rather be part of the "easy" lynch than stick to your own convictions.

It looks like a scum slip.

[Toaster]

Org:  Don't ignore me.

Okay, I guess I understand Pandar's claim so I'll unvote for now.
While shutting down the scum's kill, I do not think that a mass block helps town at all.
Pandar.

You're not committing.  Who do you think is scum?  Why?

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Irony, your link is bullshit. Actually provide what I supposedly ran over or shut it.

[Nirur Torir]

1. Why are you tunneling Pandar to the exclusion of everything else going on around here? Don't respond "I've found scum and am attacking him", yes, this is fine, whatever. Respond why you haven't really made mention of anything or anyone else since the day started; and after roleclaiming and explaining your haiku business, you only sent out one token question to Ottofar. It looked more like a way to make yourself look like you're contributing than anything, and I don't like it. It smells scummy.

Because I don't have the energy right now to proficiently attack more then one person.
Pandarsenic seems highly unwilling to give me a haiku, and I want him blocked tonight. Thus, there's no point in trying to get other haikus tonight.

2. Do you have a case on Pandar's scumminess, because I can't see one. All I see is you freaking out about his roleclaim and trying to convince everyone he's the Antichrist. For the sake of my understanding, please lay out your case for his scumminess, rather than just his role.

Alright. See below.

3. Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why for the love of all that is good and right in the world, if you truly believe Pandar is the scum you say he is, why do you go through this big thing arguing against him, and then drop a vote on Jokerman out of nowhere? What the heck? It's like you were getting ready to throw a dart (at Pandar) and then at the last second you whip around and throw it at Jokerman. It's totally out of left field since it didn't appear you suspected him all that much beforehand.

It just looks like a blind bandwagon against someone you feel will be an easier lynch.

Like you'd rather be part of the "easy" lynch than stick to your own convictions.

It looks like a scum slip.

I thought I'd mentioned my suspicions of him earlier, but apparently not. Eh.
Top two reasons:
1) I didn't believe I could lynch Pandarsenic tonight. Still don't. When unable to lynch one's primary scum choice, the second is fair game.
2)

Jokerman did indeed lie about:
a) stating that he had evidence my previous role was scum;
b) stating that he had knowledge he didn't have, to make himself look better in the eyes of town;
c) stating I had knowledge I didn't have;
d) that he felt confident his daykill target would hit scum;
e) denying saying what he had indeed said.

Jokerman did admit to:
a) using his daykill without any evidence at all on his target's alignment, based only on self preservation, emotion, and gut feel; this is utterly scummy.
b) doing this only to shut up his attacker ("OMGUS? - it totally was!"); scummy.
c) defending a practice he considers detrimental to town; scummy.
d) intending to kill lurkers without regard to their alignment (though he may backtrack on this and admit to lying instead); super-scummy.
e) multiple contradictions; scummy.
f) placing an OMGUS vote, and then denying it was OMGUS, then admitting under pressure he had no basis for it; super-scummy.

I consider these points to be sufficient grounds for a lynch right there, especially when ignored. Jokerman did not respond to these points, despite quoting the post with them.
3) I did FOS him. Mostly meaningless with how frequently people drop FOSes, but I consider a FOS to be "I'd like to see you lynched," and use it as such.

My case against Pandarsenic:
1) He did nothing before the first extension.
2) His first attack was just a vote for IronyOwl. Stated reason: Suspicious and probably trying to be blatant about being suspicous. Here is his list of roles that would want to be blatantly suspicious. He was making no effort to determine which IronyOwl was, by, say, questioning him.
3) The very next post had him claiming that his greatest suspicion was Archangel. He later went on to defend this attack by arguing semantics, claiming that Archangel was trying to keep the game in the past, and not getting his suspicions to clarify their positions.
4) He refused to give a third scumpick other then ones he had already voted for. Laziness, or unwillingness to commit to a third?
5) He quickly decided that I was his third scumpick for supposedly defending Archangel, but refrained from actually going after me until after Archangel's brief response sometime later to point out that he hadn't been paying enough attention to notice a post made by his greatest scumpick.
6) He was unwilling to form any opinion on Jokerman, claiming he had insufficient content to go off of, yet not questioning him. He continued this viewpoint, even threatening to be suspicious of anyone trying to make him commit to anything regarding Jokerman, here. He finally relented here, but I doubt anyone without access to the mafia chat will see his views on Jokerman before the end of the game.
7) He admitted to not bothering with scumhunting due to waiting for a lurker.
8) His complete contradiction regarding his stance on Zathras' alignment is amusing, here and here. "Syntactic ambiguity" as the cause? Ha.
9) His primary method of "scumhunting" me for a long while was by calling me scum, but using no evidence. His new method involves ignoring me and hoping I go away. Short of being killed, I won't, don't worry. I think I'll even append my questions to him to the end of my posts, so they don't get lost.

Listed below are the questions he's asked me, correct me if I missed one:

NT, are you still attacking me for when I attacked Archangel?

8) Come get some. You said "partially" in response to whether you're still attacking me for attacking Archangel. Why was Archangel worth chainsaw defending?

Archangel/Nirur Torir: Why are you two in bed with each other, exactly?

What are you so afraid of? If you don't get lynched I'm going to use my draw on you to commit you to that. Every. Night. You block me no matter what and I can't spend a kitten on my action :3

(Not sure I answered this one, actually. And it's because I'm sure you're scum, and you're not seeking the limelight, as though you're waiting on your night action. I'm afraid of scum with a powerful night action.)

My apparent obsession over his claim is because I both believe it to be a lie, and it's all he's really done today, other then argue with me and call me scum.

Pandarsenic, please restate your case against me.

Spoiler: Pandarsenic questions (click to show/hide)

Nirur Torir's arguments:
[...]
2) A series of increasingly complex and improbable explanations that achieve similar results because he's desperate~

2) What am I desperate to do? I've made it abundantly clear that I can roleblock you easily.

Jokerman did indeed lie about:
a) stating that he had evidence my previous role was scum;
b) stating that he had knowledge he didn't have, to make himself look better in the eyes of town;
c) stating I had knowledge I didn't have;
d) that he felt confident his daykill target would hit scum;
e) denying saying what he had indeed said.

Jokerman did admit to:
a) using his daykill without any evidence at all on his target's alignment, based only on self preservation, emotion, and gut feel; this is utterly scummy.
b) doing this only to shut up his attacker ("OMGUS? - it totally was!"); scummy.
c) defending a practice he considers detrimental to town; scummy.
d) intending to kill lurkers without regard to their alignment (though he may backtrack on this and admit to lying instead); super-scummy.
e) multiple contradictions; scummy.
f) placing an OMGUS vote, and then denying it was OMGUS, then admitting under pressure he had no basis for it; super-scummy.

What about the above quote is insufficiently suspicious for even a passing mention? Is Zathras just completely misguided? Explain.

Pandarsenic, please restate your case against me.

[Nirur Torir]

I forgot to add in point 9), that I consider his roleclaim to be bogus. I shall now use basic logic to show why I believe so:

The hypothetical situation: Pandarsenic is town, and his roleclaim was true. He has at least three lives, but can sacrifice three lives to draw every night action in on himself, or one life to roleblock/draw one person. He wishes to sacrifice three lives tonight, to draw all night actions in on himself. If there is a doctor, the scum's nk is nullified. Otherwise, he loses another life, if he even has one left.

1) Logically, three extra lives would grant anyone effective immortality - After the second or third wasted kill, a rational human would see no reason to continue wasting limited resources (Time is important for both town and scum). Pandarsenic would know this if his claim was true, as would Webadict when he gave out the roles. My role isn't nearly as powerful as effective immortality on an experienced player, and I'd be willing to bet that this holds true for everybody in this game.

2) The scum usually want to limit the number of experienced players alive at lylo. Thus, we can safely say that he would get stabbed at least once in the night, possibly twice or even three times if the scum thought his revive was due to a doctor. Pandarsenic claims he wishes to sacrifice three or four lives to block all night actions tonight, along with forcing any potential investigators to investigate him. There is no logical reason for him to do so. The town would still get their night actions if he didn't use it, and he'd quite probably live until Lylo, and so at least one useful townie would live to see through the lies at Lylo.

Thusly, either both Webadict and Pandarsenic need a course in basic logic, or Pandarsenic is a liar.

Spoiler: Pandarsenic questions (click to show/hide)

Nirur Torir's arguments:
[...]
2) A series of increasingly complex and improbable explanations that achieve similar results because he's desperate~

2) What am I desperate to do? I've made it abundantly clear that I can roleblock you easily.

Jokerman did indeed lie about:
a) stating that he had evidence my previous role was scum;
b) stating that he had knowledge he didn't have, to make himself look better in the eyes of town;
c) stating I had knowledge I didn't have;
d) that he felt confident his daykill target would hit scum;
e) denying saying what he had indeed said.

Jokerman did admit to:
a) using his daykill without any evidence at all on his target's alignment, based only on self preservation, emotion, and gut feel; this is utterly scummy.
b) doing this only to shut up his attacker ("OMGUS? - it totally was!"); scummy.
c) defending a practice he considers detrimental to town; scummy.
d) intending to kill lurkers without regard to their alignment (though he may backtrack on this and admit to lying instead); super-scummy.
e) multiple contradictions; scummy.
f) placing an OMGUS vote, and then denying it was OMGUS, then admitting under pressure he had no basis for it; super-scummy.

What about the above quote is insufficiently suspicious for even a passing mention? Is Zathras just completely misguided? Explain.

Pandarsenic, please restate your case against me.

[IronyOwl]

Irony, your link is bullshit. Actually provide what I supposedly ran over or shut it.

Hrm, not quite sure how that happened. Still, thank you for proving my point perfectly:

But please, explain how holding my vote on Org and allowing a no-lynch would have been townier, or what leaving my vote on Joker for three days is going to accomplish.

Do you have an answer? If so, why didn't you mention it?

There's also this stuff, of course:

So you've done another 180 and gone back to the exact same shit as before, but with a side of "you're not worth my time."

Do you have any response to the accusation that you completely changed your mind, then changed it again but with the notion that I'm not worth your time?

You're all useless and lurky, so yes. You've got far more content than either of them, but it's all walls of bullshit, so it doesn't really count.

Do you have any response to the accusation that you're active lurking, and therefore in the same general category as Org and Archangel?

If you were actually reading the thread, you might have guessed as much, along with a lot of other useful information.

Do you have any response to the accusation that you have, once again, missed the blindingly obvious and attempted to turn it into a scumtell?

See, it's not that big a deal if my link doesn't work when just about any of my posts concerning you prove the same thing.

In terms of what I was trying to do the first time, this. The fact that you hadn't addressed any of it up to that point, and that you refused to address any of it after, is ample proof that you're fond of talking a lot without actually saying anything- you're active lurking.

So let's see, we've got active lurking, tunneling, lying, refusing to answer questions, tapping lurkers to look busy, and a complete dearth of anything else. I wonder how many of those are scumtells?

That's right, all of them.

[Toaster]

1) Logically, three extra lives would grant anyone effective immortality - After the second or third wasted kill, a rational human would see no reason to continue wasting limited resources (Time is important for both town and scum). Pandarsenic would know this if his claim was true, as would Webadict when he gave out the roles. My role isn't nearly as powerful as effective immortality on an experienced player, and I'd be willing to bet that this holds true for everybody in this game.

My theory is that his res isn't as strong as he claims it is.  My guess is it costs either an additional kitten each time it is used or multiple kittens each use, which, while still strong, would bring it back down from incredibly powerful.

[Org]

Org:  Don't ignore me.

Okay, I guess I understand Pandar's claim so I'll unvote for now.
While shutting down the scum's kill, I do not think that a mass block helps town at all.
Pandar.

You're not committing.  Who do you think is scum?  Why?

Hm.
I don't think Pandar is, but I won't put it past him to do some fake claim like that and get away with it.
Actually, I really disagree with the mass role-block, as it means that town can't gather information. It barely helps town.
IronyOwl. Okay. You want me to do stuff. Scumhunting. How often do you hit scum.
really.

[Toaster]

You still didn't answer:  Who *do* you think is scum, and why?

[Nirur Torir]

1) Logically, three extra lives would grant anyone effective immortality - After the second or third wasted kill, a rational human would see no reason to continue wasting limited resources (Time is important for both town and scum). Pandarsenic would know this if his claim was true, as would Webadict when he gave out the roles. My role isn't nearly as powerful as effective immortality on an experienced player, and I'd be willing to bet that this holds true for everybody in this game.

My theory is that his res isn't as strong as he claims it is.  My guess is it costs either an additional kitten each time it is used or multiple kittens each use, which, while still strong, would bring it back down from incredibly powerful.

No, he quite clearly said that his revive only costs a single kitten. Unless you're accusing him of lying about his role?

[Org]

Maybe you should do something during the day instead of being night-obsessed, Org.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP YO BLOCKING

Toaster

[Toaster]

Nirur:
Pretty much.  I could see plenty of self-preservationist desire to obfuscate how much a revive really costs him.

Note that I don't consider it a scumtell if I am correct, though.


Org:

You remember me saying that I can't aim the jailkeep, right?

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur:
Pretty much.  I could see plenty of self-preservationist desire to obfuscate how much a revive really costs him.

Note that I don't consider it a scumtell if I am correct, though.

You consider it acceptable for townies to falsely claim for self-preservation?