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[IronyOwl]

Extension. Unvote Org, Vote Jokerman. I'd rather lynch Toaster, but Joker and NF are tied by my count. Bad Zathras.

Oh man, awesome reasoning. I almost want to lynch myself out of sheer respect for your awesome fucking scumhunt talents broseph.

Like fucking whoa.

He's got plenty of shit that you won't acknowledge other than to say he's ignoring you.

I suppose I might as well ask, though: Jokerman, what do you think Zathras' alignment is and why? Misguided now-town? SK given a second chance to send an innocent scumhunter to his grave? Insidious necro-minion heralding what's to come?


Pandarsenic, why do you think Nirur is freaking out? Who do you think is scum and why?

[Nirur Torir]

You're proposing more and more complex solutions to cloud the situation, refusing to admit the natural conclusion might actually be valid, and that my claim is authentic.

Furthermore, regarding point 2, I'm fairly certain that the use of my multi-abilities was assumed when Wuba drew up my role.

Yes, I utterly refuse to believe it. I refuse to believe that Webadict gave one of the most experienced players in this game effective immortality, just because he intended for that player to sacrifice lives on roleblocks. Unless he says otherwise (at the end of the game/on your death), there is very little you can do to convince me that your claimed role is true. Partially because I will be blocking you every single night until one of us lies dead and stops twitching.

Excellent. Will you actually make some attempt to actually get people to vote me eventually, beyond just calling me scum and hoping people believe you?

Or will you just hope I go after somebody else, then get one of your buddies to ensure I never wake up?

God I wish I could vig you right now, you useless piece of shit. I would kill you and fuck you in your eye socket and both this game and the lives of every person playing in it would be better for it.

I'm useless, but you're the one resorting to threats in an attempt to dissuade me from attacking you? Won't work. Scumhunt more. Preferably with evidence, as name calling is detrimental towards proving your point.

Mass redirecting/blocking is better because of the 100% block rate, the guarantee I can get investigated and maybe even protected, etc.

Bolded for emphasis.
You're certain that there's a cop. I'm not. You planning on having one of your buddies claim supercop tomorrow?

(Auto) Supermarket: Anyone targeting you receives a one-shot protect, inspect, or roleblock.

That's from the role of the only person who's stayed dead so far. I would be surprised if that was the only source of inspects in this game. You're saying "WELL UH MAYBE WUBA DECIDED THAT IN THE 13-PERSON GAME THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY COPNESS." See Grasping At Straws Instead Of Accepting The Natural Conclusion above for further details.

Perhaps so. It is BYOR, and there may be even more fun roles.

Of course disabling scum is worth disabling town. Durr. Town has day lynchery, scum relies heavily on night kill. Besides, town's powers will still be there later.

You've still not participated in scum hunting, aside from throwing mud at people who attack you. Are you trusting Zathras to hunt for you?

Well, this claim has already confirmed for me that you're scum since you're freaking the fuck out over this. That's progress there. Also, I still think Native is scummy for his treatment of Jokerman (Thinks he's scummy, but won't vote him because... he would look scummy for doing it? Not how town works >:[ Bad NF) but I have bigger concerns (i.e. making sure I can use my night multidraw and getting our friendly Mafioso Nirur Cockeatorir lynched) at the moment.

Saying I'm freaking out over it doesn't make it so, but you're certainly sounding desperate to get me off of you.

Less than three kittens: Unlikely. My theory on kitten count is listed above.

Yay, immortal Pandarsenics!

Role balanced for use of multiabilities etc. see above

Yeah, but no, sorry. Webadict's not an idiot, and he's not going to give you effective immortality, hoping that you'll sacrifice lives to roleblock people.

Scum being immune to redirects (or roleblocks for that matter): Then my role is nearly useless and Wuba gave me a shit role that thinks it can do things that are useful, but cannot.

A possibly-immortal role, by your reasoning, that can also block somebody at lylo? Useless? It hurts, the laughter does.

Do you or do you not think that the scum has someone immune to blocks/redirects? MAKE UP. YOUR MIND. If the scum can't be blocked/redirected, the ability is around as anti-town as being a Miller or a Paranoid War Vet who doesn't react to kills.

I'm switching between your hypothetical situation where your role is real, and the reality where your role cannot be real. I do not have enough information to determine whether or not the scum have a block/redirect immune role, but I can tell you that a scum multidraw would have the capability to not target scum.

Replies in orange.

Orange removed so it can't hurt anyone, ever again. I think I sacrificed some formatting to do so, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made, for the good of everyone

tl;dr: Nirur Torir is freaking out over my claim for no good reason.

I would say more excited to have spotted your bogus claim for what it is. You're the one who's freaking out.

Why would you have any reason to freak out over whatever findings you may have made?

No. You're freaking out because you can't shake me. I've gotten too close to the truth.

Hypothesis: You're out of revives. That revive was a one-shot by an ally. I'd vote you now, but it's too close to the day's end. We're both apparently content to block each other tonight. So be it.

Jokerman. You lied, and your responses to questioning have been highly unsatisfying. You've furthermore been useless, and generally feel uncooperative (that's the main reason why I wanted a game you played well. To test for cooperativeness. The secondary reason was curiosity over how well you play townie when you're actually trying). Bye-bye, scum.

[NativeForeigner]

Extension

Native: Sorry, I must have missed that one.

1. I uh...don't really see a question here. But you say you "wouldn't let me off the work after Zathras flipped"? That's a lie, and I'm not the only one that noticed (way at the bottom). Hell, neither is Pandarsenic. So I'm not really getting what you're trying to say there. As to the claims I made, I don't think they're all concisely put somewhere, but they've basically been restated in this argument, so just use the ones I've recently made and we'll go from there.

2. Ahh, you didn't answer my question. What would it take to prove it to you, then? The fact that I did, in fact, Daykill someone? And then I was willing to be blocked, a move that you seem to think is good enough to prove someone is not harmful to town? (Ah, but of course, only when the person in question is attacking your target, right?)

3. Uhh, no, that's not what I'm doing. I'm trying to point out to you how to play the game, because you appear to have some misunderstandings about it. Besides, you're doing the exact same thing you're railing against me for doing.

And as to the final point, well, you missed the point. You say, point-blank, that you KNOW I'm scum. If that's the case, what possible reason could there be for you not voting me throughout the day, and instead waiting for someone else to do it first? That's what we call sidelining; in fact, that's pretty much a textbook example. I'm interested to hear what you have to say, and I hope someone else is reading this and can understand my points.

Business aside, tonight is New Year's Eve. If I'm not on again, Happy New Year!

1) Funny how that isn't a lie. It would have been if I had said that I was at all less suspicious of you, but I didn't. I was going to wait until I had some hard evidence of my own to pursue you with. But then you decided to throw yourself at me and dig yourself a hole, saving me a lot of work. I'm not sure what Pandar's post has to do at all with this. He noticed that I wasn't actively pursuing you and I explained why. Now I'm actively pursuing you. In terms of fishing and hooks and such, I was watching the pole bob, but I didn't want to pick it up until something bit, which you did. Neither is Pandar what? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but I think I just disproved your supposed claims.

2) Oh, my bad, I thought that was just a rhetorical question, judging by the way it was phrased. An answer to that: It's not my job to prove your innocence, that's your job. I'm not sure what you're saying about the daykill, I've already given my opinion on that. Your willingness to be blocked comes only after both of those attacking you decide to do so. It's a little late for me to let you go just because you are okay with being blocked. At that point it's either an honest attempt or a last-ditch effort. And it's impossible to tell. Zathras did so right off the bat, still not a guaranteed-town move, but not so last-ditchy and thus bought him more credit than your "go ahead and block me" move did.

3) Oh, wait? So the way to play the game is to leave Jokerman alone no matter how much like scum he seems? Well shit, why didn't you just say so? I'm not doing the same exact thing, I'm pointing out that you do it. (Granted, there was definitely sarcasm in the first line of this)

See, you're missing the point. Please read more carefully because I explained this once before. In the post you were responding to, actually. I went for Zathras first because he was a confirmed SK and it would have been stupid to just ignore his revival until he cleared himself for the day. Once he did, I moved on to the next best thing, you. Whom I know almost certainly to be scum. Zathras just got the vote in before I could. If you recall, I unvoted and voted you in the very same post. There was no hesitation. If you call that sidelining, then that's what Toaster seems to be doing as well, why don't you say anything about that? Because he's your scumbuddy? See, at this point, it seems that the only people who would see your points the way you do would be your fellow scumbuddies.

Oh man, awesome reasoning. I almost want to lynch myself out of sheer respect for your awesome fucking scumhunt talents broseph.

Like fucking whoa.

You should try arguing against it rather than providing snide remarks.

[Argembarger]

Oh man; happy 2011 you guys

Real post later whenever I wake up, hahaha.

[Pandarsenic]

Nirur Torir's arguments:

1) "no u"
2) A series of increasingly complex and improbable explanations that achieve similar results because he's desperate~

I'm going to stop responding to him until he provides an actual counterargument to me. I'm sick of him wasting my time with his flailure.

[webadict]

Sorry guys. I actually gave you both an extension and a vote count yesterday, but internet issues instilled.

You all automatically got an Extension until Monday, but I may push that out.

[Nirur Torir]

Nirur Torir's arguments:

1) "no u"
2) A series of increasingly complex and improbable explanations that achieve similar results because he's desperate~

I'm going to stop responding to him until he provides an actual counterargument to me. I'm sick of him wasting my time with his flailure.

1) Huh. I seem to recall starting the fight, with you not going after me until I voted you. Twice. By trying to yell at me until I dropped the attack.
2) What am I desperate to do? I've made it abundantly clear that I can roleblock you easily.

Your arguments against me for the day, paraphrased for easy viewing:
a) "Nirur's desperate."
b) "Nirur's scum."
Arguments against me from yesterday:
c) "Nirur's defending Archangel by chainsawing."
Let me know if I missed one.

Another question, for you, regarding this:

Summary

Jokerman did indeed lie about:
a) stating that he had evidence my previous role was scum;
b) stating that he had knowledge he didn't have, to make himself look better in the eyes of town;
c) stating I had knowledge I didn't have;
d) that he felt confident his daykill target would hit scum;
e) denying saying what he had indeed said.

Jokerman did admit to:
a) using his daykill without any evidence at all on his target's alignment, based only on self preservation, emotion, and gut feel; this is utterly scummy.
b) doing this only to shut up his attacker ("OMGUS? - it totally was!"); scummy.
c) defending a practice he considers detrimental to town; scummy.
d) intending to kill lurkers without regard to their alignment (though he may backtrack on this and admit to lying instead); super-scummy.
e) multiple contradictions; scummy.
f) placing an OMGUS vote, and then denying it was OMGUS, then admitting under pressure he had no basis for it; super-scummy.

Jokerman hasn't defended himself against this.

What about it is insufficiently suspicious for even a passing mention? Is Zathras just completely misguided? Explain.

[IronyOwl]

Feels like we're slowing down. Zathras, could we get a lurkertracker in here?

While I'm at it, you seem to have disappeared a bit yourself. You've stated quite clearly and consistently that Jokerman is obvscum, and been a proponent of the Joker-Toaster-Pandar trifecta, but what do you make of everyone else?

Unvote Jokerman.

Org, you're still not doing stuff. Do you have scumpicks? Do you have questions?

MysteriousBluePuppet, how's hiding working out for you? Do you think being completely useless Day 2 is a good way to make up for being a useless bandwagoner Day 1? Think you might answer some of the innumerable accusations against you at some point?

Archangel, what do you make of everyone aside from Pandarsenic? Do you have any questions for anyone?

[Zathras]

Feels like we're slowing down. Zathras, could we get a lurkertracker in here?

While I'm at it, you seem to have disappeared a bit yourself. You've stated quite clearly and consistently that Jokerman is obvscum, and been a proponent of the Joker-Toaster-Pandar trifecta, but what do you make of everyone else?

Yes, I've been gone for a bit. Between the seasonal flu, the requisite yearly debauchery, and nursing the inevitable mother-of-all-hangovers, I've neglected my games. But yes, a new lurkertracker, detailed responses to Jokerman, and thoughts on everyone else are scheduled for tomorrow. I'm glad the extension went through.

Happy New Year, y'all; may 2011 be good to you all... or at least suck less than the previous years.


The world is going to hell in a hand basket, but getting there is half the fun!

[Mysteriousbluepuppet]

Actually, i am working, which is something i do sometimes. It,s kind of a thing. Heh, show me those innumerable accusations and ill gladly respond.  All i see from you is attacking the easiest people you can find to get yousrself some moral worth. Bandwagon was apparently day 2, day 1 it was me attacking you for your blatant buddying. Revenge much ? I've got over you, there are more interesting people around right now.

And please, Lumping me with the most successfull annoyer we got and mr invisible ?
Why do you change your vote NOW to Org while hes basically the same thing as the start of the game  ? What changed of Jokerman that suddenly ? Do you ever intend to take opinion in the conversation or you are fine and dandy about just pointing out the lurker from the side?

If you wonder, i'm doing 12 hours shift right now since its the holiday rush, I'll get my life back in a few days, for now it's gonna be short response.

New reply

Good year the same, may you find the rainbows.

[Org]

Feels like we're slowing down. Zathras, could we get a lurkertracker in here?

While I'm at it, you seem to have disappeared a bit yourself. You've stated quite clearly and consistently that Jokerman is obvscum, and been a proponent of the Joker-Toaster-Pandar trifecta, but what do you make of everyone else?

Unvote Jokerman.

Org, you're still not doing stuff. Do you have scumpicks? Do you have questions?

MysteriousBluePuppet, how's hiding working out for you? Do you think being completely useless Day 2 is a good way to make up for being a useless bandwagoner Day 1? Think you might answer some of the innumerable accusations against you at some point?

Archangel, what do you make of everyone aside from Pandarsenic? Do you have any questions for anyone?

Why would you vote me.

I don't like Pandar blocking everyone.

[Pandarsenic]

Maybe you should do something during the day instead of being night-obsessed, Org.

[NativeForeigner]

Irony, what caused your change of heart? Are you trying to scare Org into participating or did you have a sudden epiphany about Jokerman?

Org, dear God. Please be useful.

[IronyOwl]

Spoiler: MBP (click to show/hide)

Heh, show me those innumerable accusations and ill gladly respond.  All i see from you is attacking the easiest people you can find to get yousrself some moral worth. Bandwagon was apparently day 2, day 1 it was me attacking you for your blatant buddying. Revenge much ? I've got over you, there are more interesting people around right now.

So you've done another 180 and gone back to the exact same shit as before, but with a side of "you're not worth my time."

As far as pointing out those innumerable accusations, you've said that every post, I've pointed them out every post, and then you've either ignored them again, or given nonsense answers that didn't actually explain them, then ignored my explanations for why they're bullshit. I'd be happy to point out specific questions or accusations for you, but not only did that not work last time, it hasn't really ever worked- you simply refuse to take part in any semblance of a useful conversation.

Tell you what though, I'll try bringing it up every post when you ignore or fail to explain something. Not retroactively of course, else I wouldn't have time for anything else.

And please, Lumping me with the most successfull annoyer we got and mr invisible ?

You're all useless and lurky, so yes. You've got far more content than either of them, but it's all walls of bullshit, so it doesn't really count.

Why do you change your vote NOW to Org while hes basically the same thing as the start of the game  ? What changed of Jokerman that suddenly ?

I'd chalk this asininity up to being too busy at work to actually read the thread, except that this is the exact same shit you've been pulling all game. I voted Org to get him to do something, then switched to Jokerman because he was tied with NativeForeigner at what might have been the end of the day, then went back to Org when we got the official extension. If you were actually reading the thread, you might have guessed as much, along with a lot of other useful information.

But please, explain how holding my vote on Org and allowing a no-lynch would have been townier, or what leaving my vote on Joker for three days is going to accomplish.

Do you ever intend to take opinion in the conversation or you are fine and dandy about just pointing out the lurker from the side?

Exact. Same. Baseless. Shit. You're not just a tunneling liar, you're a broken record of a tunneling liar.

Irony, what caused your change of heart? Are you trying to scare Org into participating or did you have a sudden epiphany about Jokerman?

There was no change of heart. I still want Jokerman lynched, but he's been like this all game, so I don't see my vote pressuring anything else out of him. He's also not necessarily who I want lynched first.

Org, dear God. Please be useful.

This accomplishes nothing. You want Org to be useful, you play Lynch Chicken with him. He's often very persistent, but worst case you remove someone who was useless anyway.

Why would you vote me.

To let you know that I will lynch you if you insist on being worthless. Yes, night actions, but everyone's got those. Right now I don't see any reason to lynch someone else ahead of you.

I don't like Pandar blocking everyone.

Why not?

What do you think of Nirur blocking people? Does it bother you how many people have said haikus for him?

[Zathras]

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