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[mcguinty]

Edit: Hm, do liquids transmit pressure horizontally like they do in a U bend?
 
Also I just read this on the wiki. "Because a magma pump stack is known to cause massive amounts of lag a new type of pump stack was developed that causes a much smaller drop in FPS. If you change the single tile magma chamber at the output of every pump into a 3 by 3 area instead of 1 by 1 then the lag becomes approx 1/15 of that caused by the original pump stack."

 

[Lagslayer]

I may not understand the principles you're using here properly, but I have some questions about the linear-pump accelerator:

• If Pump A drains 7 units of magma from one tile at its entrance and pushes it to the single tile separating it and Pump B, wouldn't it need to appear in the tile momentarily before getting sucked into Pump B?
• If Pump B was accelerating that same unit of magma to a speed (?) higher than it was at when it exited Pump A, wouldn't there be an instant where there was not enough magma to fill Pump B's chute? (see the Moses Effect)
• How would Pump B accelerate that magma to a speed higher than Pump A did -- would the magma essentially be "in motion" for the instant it was occupying the tile between A and B, and the mere fact that Pump B was active when the magma hit it would clue the game to flag the magma exiting Pump B as moving faster than the tile of magma that the pump took in?

You know what this means? Magma machine gun!

[Shinziril]

Yeah, the magma is just going to plop out of the final pump with exactly the same horizontal momentum as from any of the other pumps, i.e. none at all.  It WILL move magma horizontally significantly faster than allowing it to flow naturally, but a single pump at the beginning of the pipe would work just as well without all of the extra pumps. 

The horizontally-aligned pumps, on the other hand, WILL increase the "velocity" at which the magma moves (since if each pumps' input is filled, each will teleport one tile of magma per clock tick, adding up to, say, 10 tiles of magma per tick for a 10-wide horizontal strip).  The main challenge with this is keeping the inputs fed, as magma does not pressure-path like water does unless pumped (and if you pump it to pressurize it, now you have to keep THOSE pump inputs filled).  Even with water keeping them supplied would be difficult, as even a river will not keep the pump inputs permanently filled (I used something similar for the high-pressure water supply of an old water logic design). 

If I remember correctly, the horizontal pump design was used with a large reservoir of magma to make the original "magma cannon".  It mostly just caused magma to spread in a circle from the output very, very rapidly, without much in the way of shooting forward. 

That "gauss-cannon" design looks interesting, on the other hand, as it allows for tapping a magma pipe at multiple levels to provide even more magmatic goodness.  The main problem you'd run into there is running out of supply magma, like in all the other designs

I still want to work out some sort of obsidian-casting based reusable cave-in trap.  Hmm . . .

[Firnagzen]

DF hydrodynamics

Still accurate and relevant, and the long and short of this is: Whether one pump or 10, the magma leaves the pump at the same speed.[/grizzledoldveteran]

Why am I always the one who drops by to add this?

[Xenos]

Oh and it only needs to be a 3x1 rather than a 3x3. 

[NecroRebel]

Oh and it only needs to be a 3x1 rather than a 3x3.

Did you actually end up testing this, or are you just referring to one of the theories that were getting tossed back and forth? I ask, as a couple of us were wondering whether a 3x1 reservoir wouldn't slowly drain the wing squares, eventually stopping the lag-reducing benefits of adjacent magma.

Also I just read this on the wiki. "Because a magma pump stack is known to cause massive amounts of lag a new type of pump stack was developed that causes a much smaller drop in FPS. If you change the single tile magma chamber at the output of every pump into a 3 by 3 area instead of 1 by 1 then the lag becomes approx 1/15 of that caused by the original pump stack."

This refers to my design and some research in this thread from the last couple of days. New innovations, in other words, though it's been confirmed to have an effect (Vehuder refitted an 80-high stack, and apparently gained ~76 FPS from the exercise. I did a 17-tall pump stack, and gains ~13).

Of course, that particular wording on the wiki is extremely unclear, fraught with misspellings, not very well-worded, badly-formatted, and doesn't refer to its source at all, which it probably should. I've thought about editing it, but haven't gotten around to it today.

[Xenos]

Oh and it only needs to be a 3x1 rather than a 3x3.

Did you actually end up testing this, or are you just referring to one of the theories that were getting tossed back and forth? I ask, as a couple of us were wondering whether a 3x1 reservoir wouldn't slowly drain the wing squares, eventually stopping the lag-reducing benefits of adjacent magma.

Also I just read this on the wiki. "Because a magma pump stack is known to cause massive amounts of lag a new type of pump stack was developed that causes a much smaller drop in FPS. If you change the single tile magma chamber at the output of every pump into a 3 by 3 area instead of 1 by 1 then the lag becomes approx 1/15 of that caused by the original pump stack."

This refers to my design and some research in this thread from the last couple of days. New innovations, in other words, though it's been confirmed to have an effect (Vehuder refitted an 80-high stack, and apparently gained ~76 FPS from the exercise. I did a 17-tall pump stack, and gains ~13).

Of course, that particular wording on the wiki is extremely unclear, fraught with misspellings, not very well-worded, badly-formatted, and doesn't refer to its source at all, which it probably should. I've thought about editing it, but haven't gotten around to it today.

If a 3x1 would slowly drain the wing squares, wouldnt a 3x3 slowly drain the wing squares as well?

[mcguinty]

I ended up making most of them 5x1. Would that be worse than 3x1? I ask because my miners are still only a third of the way done so it would be much easier to change it now.

Edit: Never mind. two of the four stair columns are 3x1 and the other two are 5x1 so I can test this myself.

[Bluefinger]

Just an update post for the most part:

Dammed off a nearby gorge with a brook running through in order to give myself a safe area to build my powerplant. However, due to considerable distance from the volcano, I will have to engineer a power transport network in order to get power to where I want it. I also may be going a little overboard with power generation: 7 water-wheels currently finished and three more being built. All I can say is MOAR POWER. Conversely, the elves might get pissed off by the sudden massive deforestation going on. MOAR WOOD.

I am also planning out how I will pump magma out of my volcano. I will have to avoid intersecting my tunnel of death (which includes a trapped drawbridge over magma, so I wonder if people falling in is enough to mist things up. I might test this on some human traders). In general, my project is on its way, though I do have doubts that this will work as intended. If not, I'm sure I can find a way to convert this into more fun.

[Bluefinger]

Here be another update, with diagrams!

Power source and power transport system built. First stage of the Magma Accelerator now being constructed. Magma extraction and preparation into suitable, easy access reservoir at a more convenient z-level. The First Stage is about priming the device with a good amount of magma. Extraction from volcano is the bottleneck for the plan, so I will have to break this up into stages. So, in essence, the first stage is like so:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Side-On Perspective

Key:
V : Volcano, ~ : Magma
* : Gear Assembly, = : horizontal axle, P : Power Source
%% : Screw Pump, [] : stone walls, # : Fortifications


~]        *====*     Reservoir
~]   *====*    %%~~~~~~~~~~~~~[
~] P=*    %%~~[
~]   %%~~[
V#~~[


Each level pushes magma into a 2x7 small reservoir, which acts as a draw point for the next level. The three pumps in each level are setup like so:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Top-down view, . : Floor, o : Channel

]..[~~
]o%%~~
]..[~~
]o%%~~
]..[~~
]o%%~~
]..[~~


The only difference between the first level and the rest is that the reservoir has three fortifications carved into the volcano obsidian wall. The final reservoir would be very large, 18x9 in dimension. So when that is fully filled, should give me plenty of buffer when it comes to dumping magma onto the map. Whilst the first stage will be three pumps wide, the second stage will only be two. Priority is to make sure the two stages can run independently, and that when the second stage is unable to get more magma, the first stage is able to at least refill the main reservoir quickly. When both are running with a buffer, the result should give me ample magma time.

*rushes back to the nearest computer with more 'ingredients'*

[NecroRebel]

If a 3x1 would slowly drain the wing squares, wouldnt a 3x3 slowly drain the wing squares as well?

It isn't the same, because the magma can spread orthagonally much better than it can diagonally. In a 3x3 reservoir (or probably 3x2, to be honest), the magma the pump is putting into a given level can go into the next pump's input square or around the perimeter easily. So, the perimeter squares tend to keep 1/7-3/7 magma in them at all times. In a 3x1, though, the new magma in the reservoir is put straight into the next pump's input square, where it gets picked up instantly, and the two wing squares can spread when there's no magma coming up. When they spread, they lose magma to the next level's pump, theoretically eventually causing them to drain.

Of course, I've not actually tested the 3x1 design; I was going to, but then lost my fort. So, it might work as well as the 3x3 or 3x2, but I don't know that for certain. If someone else could test it and see if it is a) less laggy than the "classic" design, and b) as effective as the 3x3 design, that'd be appreciated.

[Hyndis]

I can't remember the fortress I saw there horizontals pump stacks in but it's on DFMA somewhere.

This might be the one you are talking about. The "magma teleporter" that Hyndis made in his fort Axeglided.

http://mkv25.net/dfma/poi-25980-magmateleporter

You can see there on my map the magma teleporter doesn't actually do anything useful, aside from dumping magma onto the plump helmet farm for no apparent reason.

However, weaponizing this design would be simple!

Build the device above a walkway where goblins enter your fortress. Move magma back and forth over the walkway. The magma will touch the ground for only a moment, but do so repeatedly, again and again, along the entire corridor.

Essentially its just a long mist generated filled with magma instead of water. Instead of giving a cleansing shower it strips flesh from bones.

[Aramco]

Essentially its just a long mist generated filled with magma instead of water. Instead of giving a cleansing shower it strips flesh from bones.

Sigged'

I am building a magma gun in my current fort.

[DrGravitas]

I built something similar to this (albeit much sloppier) when I decided draining only the top layer of my volcano wasn't enough for my lava weapon. I dug down the side of the volcano and all the way to the second lowest level of the magma sea (luckily, I had a straight shot of stone all the way down big enough for my needs.) But I needed to transport it horizontally to meet the middle pumpstack I wanted to supply (conveniently located floating in the middle of the volcano.) I had to twist the tunnels a bit to get the to two to match properly, but it worked (with a few air gaps.)

I'm going to rebuild the middle stack (alunite-based) to eliminate the space between to the stacks. This will not only eliminate a small air-gap that is currently occuring between the middle, alunite, stack and the primary, hematite, stack, but allow the substack, orthoclase, to match up better and eliminate the few spaces it has at the top now! Once it's all retweaked, magma will have to travel only a total of 5 squares to get into the pumping system and right out it in only 2 gaps having traveled up over 33 levels.

Also, I didn't have quite the same design; I didn't have those magma "wells" since it was built over an existing channel. As long as there's no gaps in the pumping, the magma does not flow outward. Not sure if it would save framerates if it had the walls, though.
Channel:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pumps:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Power:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Aramco]

I built something similar to this (albeit much sloppier) when I decided draining only the top layer of my volcano wasn't enough for my lava weapon. I dug down the side of the volcano and all the way to the second lowest level of the magma sea (luckily, I had a straight shot of stone all the way down big enough for my needs.) But I needed to transport it horizontally to meet the middle pumpstack I wanted to supply (conveniently located floating in the middle of the volcano.) I had to twist the tunnels a bit to get the to two to match properly, but it worked (with a few air gaps.)

I'm going to rebuild the middle stack (alunite-based) to eliminate the space between to the stacks. This will not only eliminate a small air-gap that is currently occuring between the middle, alunite, stack and the primary, hematite, stack, but allow the substack, orthoclase, to match up better and eliminate the few spaces it has at the top now! Once it's all retweaked, magma will have to travel only a total of 5 squares to get into the pumping system and right out it in only 2 gaps having traveled up over 33 levels.

Also, I didn't have quite the same design; I didn't have those magma "wells" since it was built over an existing channel. As long as there's no gaps in the pumping, the magma does not flow outward. Not sure if it would save framerates if it had the walls, though.
Channel:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pumps:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Power:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looks good. Also, what tileset are you using? It looks... nice.