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[Farmerbob]

I am quite certain that some things are provable to the extent of being relatable to the obsarvations we can make about the world. There is great value in being able to admit what you don't know, or that what you know might turn out to be imprecise in the future. But I don't see equal value in insisting that you don't know even if there is some evidence staring you in the face, just for the sake of allowing yourself to equalize the disliked, if more likely answer with the less likely one, albeit preferred, on the grounds of both of them being supposedly beyond the realm of scrutiny.

This brings me back to the question you had asked previously, about the compatibility/incompatibility of science and religion - judging by your personal views on the matter we're just discussing, it would appear that your belief in a creator leads you to discrediting the science related to the realm of creation. You would be very unlikely to find yourself engaged in a scientific effort to explain the origins of the universe, as you appear to already know how it happened, or at least(and forgive me that I'm not sure which it is) that it is impossible, or meaningless to know that. Thus the answers provided by your belief system prevents you from seeking answers in a scientific fashion.

From my point of view, it's just as possible that the big bang occurred without divine intervention and nature took it's course as it is that God created the universe, and a history of that universe that included the big bang.

Do I believe that one is more likely than the other?  Yes.  Do I know which is the reality?  No.

I tend to gravitate towards science based reasoning, but I also never forget that if there is a supernatural being of immense power and knowledge out there, it's quite possibly going to be capable of editing time and energy directly.  Such a being could actually create reality, including the history of said reality.  One day we might be able to detect the residual effects of godly actions, if there is a god.  If/when that occurs, then we'll certainly have many fewer Agnostics in the world.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I am just as skeptic as you are, i have just taken the freedom to beleive in a caring and loving god. And then comes the "but my life is shit and my ex-girlfriend got raped while in a psycho ward", and i answer with the question, Toady didnt add a "win game" button, did he? That would be pointless. I beleive God didnt give us cheats because he wanted us to appreciate it. life.

There is a significant difference between allowing challenge in life and allowing the sort of psychopathic evil that goes on in our world on a daily basis. You can't really appreciate life if, for example, you are starving to death because the local military junta stole all your food, enslaved your mother, shot your father, and threw you down a pit to die. In the situation of the world we have right now, the best possible reality for us is that there is no god, because if there is, it is either content to watch us suffer (thus making it apathetic or malicious, and thus unworthy of worship and devotion) or unable to do anything about it (and thus too weak to use its influence on the world, and thus unworthy of worship and devotion).

[DrPoo]

I am just as skeptic as you are, i have just taken the freedom to beleive in a caring and loving god. And then comes the "but my life is shit and my ex-girlfriend got raped while in a psycho ward", and i answer with the question, Toady didnt add a "win game" button, did he? That would be pointless. I beleive God didnt give us cheats because he wanted us to appreciate it. life.

There is a significant difference between allowing challenge in life and allowing the sort of psychopathic evil that goes on in our world on a daily basis. You can't really appreciate life if, for example, you are starving to death because the local military junta stole all your food, enslaved your mother, shot your father, and threw you down a pit to die. In the situation of the world we have right now, the best possible reality for us is that there is no god, because if there is, it is either content to watch us suffer (thus making it apathetic or malicious, and thus unworthy of worship and devotion) or unable to do anything about it (and thus too weak to use its influence on the world, and thus unworthy of worship and devotion).

Eh, i dont know. I am too tired to wrap my mind around that right now.
But i experienced what i described myself, and i still love my god.
So to avoid saying stupid shit that would put me or my religion in a bad(der) light, i say good night from now, sleep well.

[Farmerbob]

I am just as skeptic as you are, i have just taken the freedom to beleive in a caring and loving god. And then comes the "but my life is shit and my ex-girlfriend got raped while in a psycho ward", and i answer with the question, Toady didnt add a "win game" button, did he? That would be pointless. I beleive God didnt give us cheats because he wanted us to appreciate it. life.

There is a significant difference between allowing challenge in life and allowing the sort of psychopathic evil that goes on in our world on a daily basis. You can't really appreciate life if, for example, you are starving to death because the local military junta stole all your food, enslaved your mother, shot your father, and threw you down a pit to die. In the situation of the world we have right now, the best possible reality for us is that there is no god, because if there is, it is either content to watch us suffer (thus making it apathetic or malicious, and thus unworthy of worship and devotion) or unable to do anything about it (and thus too weak to use its influence on the world, and thus unworthy of worship and devotion).

If there is a deity & an infinite afterlife, then our time spent on Earth compared to the duration of an immortal soul is less than nothing.  We, as humans, allow our loved ones to experience pain now and then, or they won't grow.  Since we don't know if there is a soul or not, (for sure), we can't say what suffering in life might do for the soul.  Perhaps a painful life equates to a more potent soul in the afterlife.  Perhaps that god watches the victims of that Junta and winces inside, but refuses to act and lets it all happen because it will make the victim a better soul.  I don't know, you don't know.  Unless some deity decides to show up and tell us in no uncertain terms, we will almost certainly never know.

[Max White]

Why was this necro'd? Whyyyyyy?

[Bauglir]

Why was this necro'd? Whyyyyyy?

Starting to wonder that myself. Fortunately (or unfortunately, as the case may be), in accordance with the new rules I posted, I have to lock this now. See you on Tuesday.

[Toady One]

This thread has turned into a problem for me again.  I think it is better to leave it dead than to allow it to resurrect in this fashion.