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[Shrugging Khan]

OH COME ON.

I even went so far as to include the non-offensivity remark.

[Sinned]

OH COME ON.

I even went so far as to include the non-offensivity remark.

For it to work you need to use it in a sentence that leaves something of a doubt... you were just outright insulting. Still its the thought what counts I guess.

It (just) being christmas and all.

[malimbar04]

OH COME ON.

I even went so far as to include the non-offensivity remark.

ok, let me give an example then.

"You're a bitch, no offense intended".

Putting a "no offense" disclaimer doesn't make it true.

I would say it's fine though, if you justified what you said. Something like "The belief in magic  just seems silly. Every magician i can think of has been shown to be a hoax" would be a lot less offensive, and actually contribute the conversation.

So, what is it abouty Wicca that you find silly?

[Shrugging Khan]

Alright then!

Point one: Reincarnation is bullcrap. It falls straight into the middle of ye olde "too obviously wish-fulfilment" territory. "Why obvious?", you might want to ask? Look at it. JUST LOOK AT IT.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm afraid I must agree with Khan here. Reincarnation, or any other afterlife system, is quite obviously just a knee-jerk reaction to the fear of death.

[Sinned]

Alright then!

Point one: Reincarnation is bullcrap. It falls straight into the middle of ye olde "too obviously wish-fulfilment" territory. "Why obvious?", you might want to ask? Look at it. JUST LOOK AT IT.

It works both ways ya know...

[citation needed]

Really now... thats the fun bit about this thread. But just insulting someone and just going "Look at it!" is the same as non-atheists citing bible passages for you to believe or me claiming to the savior telling you to stfu! - no insult intended.

I should prob stop feeding the troll... - no insult intended - anyone willing to pick this thread up again

[Shrugging Khan]

Point two: Karma, or its rule-of-three variation. Three is a pretty number with lots of practical and mathematical applications. People like pretty things. Some people like pretty things so much they make them part of their world-view (personally, I dig skywatching). But there's absolutely no reason why the world should work that way.
Also, karma-esque concepts in general: Wish fulfilment again. The world does not conform to most people's idea of fairness, so they like to imagine that there's some late payback for all deeds without adequate reaction to them in the present.

It works both ways ya know...

Really now... thats the fun bit about this thread. But just insulting someone and just going "Look at it!" is the same as non-atheists citing bible passages for you to believe or me claiming to the savior telling you to stfu! - no insult intended.

I should prob stop feeding the troll... - no insult intended - anyone willing to pick this thread up again

I'm thinking there's a few little differences between pointing at a "holy book" (of made up shit) or pointing at observable psychology.

[malimbar04]

I'm afraid I must agree with Khan here. Reincarnation, or any other afterlife system, is quite obviously just a knee-jerk reaction to the fear of death.

No problem agreeing with Khan. Khan not stupid, just brash.

Reincarnation makes more sense than an afterlife in some other territory like heaven, or the underworld of Hades, or with Odin while waiting for Valhalla. It solves the problem of the infinite amount of souls that are being moved around, while also recognizing souls of those other than humans.

The big problem I have with reincarnation (in any of it's forms), is that is assumes a relatively constant amount of life. If there are born more humans in one generation than the previous, new souls have to be created. If you spread it out to animals, than the proliferation of insects should create a lacking in the souls of other creatures. Depending on your specific flavor, the system eventually breaks. The buffer of souls (while waiting for spots in life to open up) would have to be far larger than all the things alive today. Then we could systematically disprove the theory by propegating life beyond the limit of the buffer.

There is that, and then the whole "we have no evidence a soul even exists".

[Shrugging Khan]

Third point! Souls are...see it coming...wish fulfilment again: the wish for being special, for not just being moving dead matter in a complex configuration, but something metaphysical.

[malimbar04]

Third point! Souls are...see it coming...wish fulfilment again: the wish for being special, for not just being moving dead matter in a complex configuration, but something metaphysical.

I disagree with this point. Souls I always figured were a wish for explaining personality and death. "father was moving, now father is not moving. What's the difference? The dead father must be missing life.", where life later redefines as a soul.

[Shrugging Khan]

Well, that probably was their point up until someone decided to do !!SCIENCE!! and find out how brains work. I'd say by now, it's WF again.

[Sinned]

Point two: Karma, or its rule-of-three variation. Three is a pretty number with lots of practical and mathematical applications. People like pretty things. Some people like pretty things so much they make them part of their world-view (personally, I dig skywatching). But there's absolutely no reason why the world should work that way.

You are missing the point on Karma there. Do you need a solid number to work with, I would go with 3,14 or 42, for shit&giggles mostly.

Also, karma-esque concepts in general: Wish fulfilment again. The world does not conform to most people's idea of fairness, so they like to imagine that there's some late payback for all deeds without adequate reaction to them in the present.

Fair enough... go nuts I would say. No really. If that's how you feel, go for it. If the only thing that is holding you back (or not) is your sense of right and wrong. What you can do to another person that's the way to go. Like Bill Hicks would say, Enjoy the ride!

It works both ways ya know...

Really now... thats the fun bit about this thread. But just insulting someone and just going "Look at it!" is the same as non-atheists citing bible passages for you to believe or me claiming to the savior telling you to stfu! - no insult intended.

I should prob stop feeding the troll... - no insult intended - anyone willing to pick this thread up again

I'm thinking there's a few little differences between pointing at a "holy book" (of made up shit) or pointing at observable psychology.

The difference here is having the common decency of saying you don't agree with something ... or referring to it as "of made up shit". <- This bit might be confusing to you, but pretty important to keeping this thread "not locked". "holy book" by it self, would of sufficed...

[Shrugging Khan]

The difference here is having the common decency of saying you don't agree with something ... or referring to it as "of made up shit". <- This bit might be confusing, but pretty important to keeping this thread "not locked".

Oy pardon me, of course it's not made up, or shit, it's totally the word of god, at the very worst written down with some minor mistakes by his most faithful devotees, and it's totally full of valuable moral teachings and undeniable facts about the nature of the world.
Happy now? 

Fair enough... go nuts I would say. No really. If that's how you feel, go for it. If the only thing that is holding you back (or not) is your sense of right and wrong. What you can do to another person that's the way to go. Like Bill Hicks would say, Enjoy the ride!

My sense of right and wrong not so much as my sense of what I can get away with. But I'm a nice guy, so not too many atrocities committed on my part.

[Sinned]

The difference here is having the common decency of saying you don't agree with something ... or referring to it as "of made up shit". <- This bit might be confusing, but pretty important to keeping this thread "not locked".

Oy pardon me, of course it's not made up, or shit, it's totally the word of god, at the very worst written down with some minor mistakes by his most faithful devotees, and it's totally full of valuable moral teachings and undeniable facts about the nature of the world.
Happy now? 

Actually, except the part where you discovered the italic option and tried to once again to ridicule me and others I agree that most books of faith, aka for you, as "Holy books full of shit" to be just that. Holy books mean very little to me, childrens book's might hold the same story as much... lying, stealing, killing = bad. The obvious stuff one might say... For me though there is no holy book and for many pagans, there is none also.

Even then for who it is important, it's very hard around these times to find a "holy book" not being reinterpreted, translated and then reinterpreted again for 2000+ years on end... by the victors that is, as they just don't write history.

Fair enough... go nuts I would say. No really. If that's how you feel, go for it. If the only thing that is holding you back (or not) is your sense of right and wrong. What you can do to another person that's the way to go. Like Bill Hicks would say, Enjoy the ride!

My sense of right and wrong not so much as my sense of what I can get away with.

That's very reassuring...

But I'm a nice guy, so not too many atrocities committed on my part.

Aren't we lucky

[Urist is dead tome]

Khan I assure you he thinks you're belief (Or lack thereof.) is silly.