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[Urist is dead tome]

Ya hit the nail on the head when you said religion is a personal thing. And that's why I don't really like the Christians that go door to door.

Anyways. I think that a lot of people don't realize that modern paganism is more popular than they think.

At the Air Force base in Colorado Spring there is a Druid temple thing.

I don't know. Just something about worshiping nature. It could be that in the Bible G-d told man he commanded nature. It's weird to compare religions.

[malimbar04]

I search for meaning in religion because... hmm. Well, it's because of belief really. I have no real reason to believe what I do, I just... do. I can't really explain it. But I just feel that Wicca is... right. It feels right. It's a weird feeling too, kind of... warm. Christianity never gave me that. I never felt a connection to the world through Christianity, it just felt empty. So I guess I'm searching for a deeper meaning and understanding of the world, and myself. Mostly myself though. Religion should be a personal journey.

This is interesting to me. I think it would also be interesting to those looking for the source of beliefs such as these (I think Sam Harris was working on this).

The big problem is that these feelings arise in multiple people around the world with widely differing beliefs. I was a Mormon for several years for exactly this type of feeling. They call it a "burning of the bosom", and every mormon I've talked to has felt it (usually very strongly and relatively often).

Certain asiatic monks meditate in order to feel this as well. By imagining a fire burning in the center of their body and then moving up a central tube, they actually raise their body temperature. How much? Well they sit nearly naked in a cave in a mountain below freezing, put wet cloths over their shoulders, and raise their temperature enough to make it visibly steam. The cloth is dry within an hour or something like that.

[Urist is dead tome]

Placebo effect. They "trick" themselves into thinking that their is a "fire" inside them.

That's my guess at least.

[Phmcw]

You could as well say that a wizard did it.
On the whole placebo effect is one of the thing that motivate me the most to learn science.
What is it? Where does it stop? what can it do? How does it work? No need for a gosh to get paranormal, it's right under your noses.
AND IT WILL BE EXPLAINED TOO!!!!

[malimbar04]

Placebo effect. They "trick" themselves into thinking that their is a "fire" inside them.

That's my guess at least.

Sure, but that doesn't say much as to the nature of the effect. The Placebo effect is still completely unexplained. Also, the placebo effect is supposed to differ from person to person based on their expectation, but a sensation of comforting and psychologically reinforcing warmth is relatively consistent among very different areas.

On the whole placebo effect is one of the thing that motivate me the most to learn science.
What is it? Where does it stop? what can it do? How does it work? No need for a gosh to get paranormal, it's right under your noses.
AND IT WILL BE EXPLAINED TOO!!!!

It would be amazing if we figured out how this works. I would think it would work differently for different effects (like cancer is different from location to location). If we could figure out how it works, we could exploit it in much more cool ways.

[Urist is dead tome]

The Placebo sure is a beauty of the world.

If we are to attempt to take advantage of this we need gullible people, or hypnosis. We have plenty of the former.

[ECrownofFire]

Even if the placebo effect is a placebo, if it works, it works, right?

[Sinned]

Quickly, a step back on the topic to the topic of general craft (magic,magik,whatever) amongst pagans. (Generalizing here, as its bloody impossible to grasp them all)

Most won't touch it with a 30 feet pole. If by direct or indirect "effect" you are responsible of influencing another person's life... one is held accountable. Your best intentions could be opposite of what this person wanted to learn from this life. (Intention is enough, there could be 0 effect...)

Karma is a bitch.

Placebo's fit the above often ... But if the scientist figure it out... that's ok also

[ECrownofFire]

Which is exactly why the Wiccan rede applies "An (if) it harm none, do as you will". (I prefer the extended version that includes "An it cause harm, do as you must") I really like this rule (more of a piece of advice though), if I could choose just one rule for the world to live by, it'd be this. And I generally hear that harm includes unintentional harm, and just generally influencing others without their consent.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

In addition to the above (and if I'm remembering correctly), Wiccans have what's called the "Rule of Three", in that anything you do to another person or the world will return to you eventually times three, whether it's good or bad.

[Urist is dead tome]

I gotta admit I didn't see Wicca coming. I really didn't.

Anyway. Do you practice most Wicca rituals?

[ECrownofFire]

In addition to the above (and if I'm remembering correctly), Wiccans have what's called the "Rule of Three", in that anything you do to another person or the world will return to you eventually times three, whether it's good or bad.

Which is correct, and is pretty much WHY you follow the Rede

I gotta admit I didn't see Wicca coming. I really didn't.

Anyway. Do you practice most Wicca rituals?

Not yet (probably), still extremely new, haven't even gotten any stuff related to it. Just been reading a lot online. I probably will though, eventually.

[malimbar04]

Which is exactly why the Wiccan rede applies "An (if) it harm none, do as you will". (I prefer the extended version that includes "An it cause harm, do as you must") I really like this rule (more of a piece of advice though), if I could choose just one rule for the world to live by, it'd be this. And I generally hear that harm includes unintentional harm, and just generally influencing others without their consent.

Which is just another version of the Golden Rule, which is among practically all cultures and religions.

Even if the placebo effect is a placebo, if it works, it works, right?

Depends on what you call "works". It does not imply that any detail of the religion is accurate in any way. All that it implies that if you think it will comfort you, it will. You can get the same effect if you think drinking orange juice will make you drunk.

[Shrugging Khan]

Oh my fuck...Wicca.

Let me just say I think your belief is extremely silly - no insult intended.

[malimbar04]

Oh my fuck...Wicca.

Let me just say I think your belief is extremely silly - no insult intended.

You can turn that onto any religion. Since we're actually trying to debate (preferably with the purpose of persuading others), this is just about meaningless and useless.

While we don't have to respect others peoples beliefs (I certainly don't respect any superstition), I think it's important that we still treat them with a certain amount of dignity.