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[Realmfighter]

-Stuff-

None of this matters

The only thing that does, is when you look up at the sky, and begin to contemplate its vastness do you go "Wow, there is no way something this amazing could have happened just by chance" or "Wow, its amazing how all of this happened just by chance"

[Earthquake Damage]

"Wow, its amazing how all of this happened just by chance"

If by "this happened just by chance" you're referring to the initial conditions like physical laws and constants, I'll leave it alone.

If you instead mean something more along the lines of "events are random", I'd call that a misconception (in much the same manner as "we couldn't have evolved by chance therefore intelligent design").  By all appearances, all things are fairly deterministic consequences of the initial conditions and rules of the game.  I'd say strictly so, but that's very debatable, though it's obvious the random element is bounded.

[Realmfighter]

It sounded better then "Wow, its amazing how there is not a God"

It also worked.

[Urist is dead tome]

I know I said I would leave but there's a lot of ground to cover.

For starters. The compatibility of the Big Bang Theory and creationism.

[FuzzyZergling]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I keep this around for just such a discussion.

[Urist is dead tome]

If you consider G-d to be a wizard than I'm fine with that.

The idea of the big bang and creationism are not inherently polar opposites. I see the possibility that 1. G-d caused the big bang. 2. G-d has done this numerous times and this is just one in a long line.

This idea goes with the theory of evolution as well.

[Shades]

The only thing that does, is when you look up at the sky, and begin to contemplate its vastness do you go "Wow, there is no way something this amazing could have happened just by chance" or "Wow, its amazing how all of this happened just by chance"

If it didn't happen by 'chance' then I want my money back, as any creator worth her salt could have done a much better job.

Note I put 'chance' in quotes as it's not an accurate view of how evolution works, although it is the most common.

The idea of the big bang and creationism are not inherently polar opposites. I see the possibility that 1. G-d caused the big bang. 2. G-d has done this numerous times and this is just one in a long line.

Creationism is a polar opposite of the big bang theory, however this doesn't mean point 1 is wrong, just that it's not creationism, at least as worded even if it's a form of creation. Please do not try and claim otherwise without understanding what the creationism cult are attempt to suggest is the case.

[Leafsnail]

If you consider G-d to be a wizard than I'm fine with that.

It's a joke based on a tvtrope (basically "handwave anything you can't explain").

[malimbar04]

-Stuff-

None of this matters

The only thing that does, is when you look up at the sky, and begin to contemplate its vastness do you go "Wow, there is no way something this amazing could have happened just by chance" or "Wow, its amazing how all of this happened just by chance"

That is a (bad) justification for a god, but it's not a justification for any specific god. The only god that such reasoning even somewhat supports is the so vague as to be useless anyways. Such a god doesn't need to be worshiped, and certainly isn't Yahweh or Jesus or Vishnu.

[Realmfighter]

That is a (bad) justification for a god, but it's not a justification for any specific god.

Blah..??..?.

Its not a justification for a God, its the gut feeing you get when you know there is, or isn't a God. You can make up justifications later to become the focus of hatred for everyone that doesn't agree with you.

You missed the point of that post completely.

[thobal]

(Total disclosure, I just noticed this thread and 50~ pages are too many to read while I set up my soap box.)

Anyways.........

Whether by chance or by G-O-D, the big bang is bunk. Steady State is the only formula that makes any sense.

The argument by the religious is that something cant come from nothing.
The response is usually "Big Bang!"

But that just avoids the question of what is it all from. Most answers do.

The only complete philosophy is the Steady State Hypothesis. All that ever is is and shall ever be. No supreme being but itself and none other allowed. Big Bangs need not apply.

The Anti-Hoyle at its best.

[Bauglir]

Yeah, but steady state is observably and provably wrong.

[Urist is dead tome]

The only thing that does, is when you look up at the sky, and begin to contemplate its vastness do you go "Wow, there is no way something this amazing could have happened just by chance" or "Wow, its amazing how all of this happened just by chance"

If it didn't happen by 'chance' then I want my money back, as any creator worth her salt could have done a much better job.

Note I put 'chance' in quotes as it's not an accurate view of how evolution works, although it is the most common.

The idea of the big bang and creationism are not inherently polar opposites. I see the possibility that 1. G-d caused the big bang. 2. G-d has done this numerous times and this is just one in a long line.

Creationism is a polar opposite of the big bang theory, however this doesn't mean point 1 is wrong, just that it's not creationism, at least as worded even if it's a form of creation. Please do not try and claim otherwise without understanding what the creationism cult are attempt to suggest is the case.

What are they attempting to suggest? And aren't I part of that cult?

[PenguinOverlord]

Just close this.

[thobal]

Yeah, but steady state is observably and provably wrong.

I was made to understand that an information barrier prevented us from recovering any facts from before 10~ billion years ago. Humans have no idea how long the universe has truly existed nor what proportion of this existence we have available to study.