Bauglir is single-handedly trying to keep this thread from becoming a hate-fest where everyone rants about their least-favorite worldviews.
Not an easy task and I definitely can respect the effort.
Because let's face it, we clearly have quite a large number of Bay12ers who are utterly frustrated and furious at religion.
But even if it was decided amongst everyone that there is no god, that religion is a lie, and that science and reason is the way to go, I can guarantee that almost all of the religious folk who annoy you now will simply find another excuse to hold themselves superior to you.
I simply think it should be acknowledged that a big problem is that the personality of many people is simply hard-coded to be like that. To associate with some group, and consider everyone outside of that group to be inferior and undeserving of respect. Religion is certainly a big part of this, yes. It provides a very convenient group-mentality that people can latch on to and be bothersome pests and get in your business and try to run your life. Absolutely. But to blindly attack religion, and everyone who isn't an atheist...
Well, I think that's going a little far. I mean, there are people, lots of people, out there right now, for whom religion is a positive aspect in their life. For whom it provides a reason to get up in the morning and go do something good to make the world a better place. For whom it is the only thing keeping them from committing violence or taking their own life or something similar. This is to say, there are lots of people amongst the annoying assholes you have come to know and loathe, who are simply better people because of religion, and derive their happiness from it. People who aren't going around telling others that they're bad people who need to be saved, or oppressing the thoughts and rights of their children. I find the generalizations being slung around about religion and religious folk to be rather blunt, and, well, poorly thought out.
Also, let's face it, unless you're a fundamental creationist, there's no reason to deny or hamper scientific advancement and/or knowledge. And fundamental creationists are pretty damn stubborn if they're still holding those beliefs in this day and age.
Is religion unnecessary? Plenty of people think so.
Is it opium for the masses? I suppose.
Does it lead to a lot of negative things? Sure.
Are lots of religious people raving, ignorant assholes? Yup.
My point is, is that lots of people are just raving, ignorant assholes, and that it doesn't really matter if there is religion or not, they will still be raving, ignorant assholes. Trust me. There are other things they could latch on to.
Hell, the stuff I'm saying about hard-coded personalities, I read out of a Skeptical Inquirer article. Their basic point was that if you were to somehow remove all knowledge of religion from certain peoples minds, they will just go and invent another one. Certain personalities get that thrill from belonging to a group like that. Absolutely, the motivation for some corrupt assholes is control and power. But they're gonna work to get it independently of religion. They'll get it by, for example, simply forming a club. The club doesn't worship anything, but they do have secret meetings, and if you're part of this exclusive club, that means you're better than everyone else.
Religion is just a convenient stand-in and excuse. Take it away, and what do you get? A bunch of assholes going off to form new clubs. Oh, and a whole bunch of otherwise perfectly good and reasonable people whose lives have, to them, suddenly lost meaning.
Do you need religion to be a good person? Hell no.
Can you find meaning in life without it? Well obviously.
But listen: not everyone is better off as an athiest. Say what you will about their "mental capabilities", call them delusional, whatever you want. Say what you want about the illogicalness of their beliefs. But I've witnessed effects of religion. I've seen it take a man who was slowly killing himself with alcohol and on the verge of destroying his family and career completely turn his life around by giving him something to hope and live for. I've also been fortunate to have grown up around a lot of very liberal religious folk, who also had strong principles of tolerance and respect. Hell, the community banded together and got the Jehovah's Witnesses in the area to quit harassing people. So I guess you could say I have a rather skewed attitude when it comes to religion. And just in case it matters, yes, lots of teenagers around my hometown actually did leave the church, and became self-proclaimed atheists. But they still respected the community and held it in high regard, even if they didn't want what the church had to offer. I know this because many of my friends were those very people.
And, for the record, I do not abide by any religious group that goes around and puts others down, or infringes on anyone's personal freedoms.
But to go around saying everyone who follows religion is stupid, naive raving lunatics who absolutely need to stop and become atheists? Well, first of all, that makes you seem exactly like the religious strawmen you are attacking, and secondly, it basically makes you a Stop Having Fun Guy who wants to thoroughly dismantle the establishment, far beyond the assholes who should indeed be stopped, all the way through to the people whose lives you would legitimately ruin should your desires be made manifest.
tl;dr: There are basically two kinds of religious people, those that exploit it and those that need it. Please distinguish between the two when throwing down blanket statements like "all religion is evil and should be abolished".
Also, want to debate logic and reason with someone, but this one lowly thread doesn't quite satisfy your desire for intellectual checkmate? Might I recommend the
? Go to the forums. Try to convince them that the earth is round. Good luck; many have gone before you and came away frustrated and losing hope for the human race.
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Topic: Atheism Redux [READ THE FIRST POST] (Read 201086 times)