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Author Topic: The "America Question"  (Read 19552 times)

Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #225 on: December 16, 2010, 12:40:55 pm »

Are you just going around spamming that in random threads where people are calmly discussing things?
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

Bauglir

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #226 on: December 16, 2010, 01:41:52 pm »

-snip-
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 03:23:08 pm by Bauglir »
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

dragonshardz

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #227 on: December 16, 2010, 02:33:50 pm »

Are you just going around spamming that in random threads where people are calmly discussing things?

I've posted that quote in one thread, and referred to it in another. So, no, it's not spamming.

I'm posting it because the debate(s) seem a little heated, and...well...yeah. What Bauglir said.

Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #228 on: December 16, 2010, 02:38:18 pm »

Are you just going around spamming that in random threads where people are calmly discussing things?being dicks?

Your form of emphasis is to insult and belittle anyone who disagrees with you, thus ensuring their continued disagreement and encouraging a response in kind to you. It doesn't get accomplish anything but increasing the density of the word "fuck" on the forums. If you want to contribute, use less "emphasis". Because it's not necessary.
That would dilute the message. Sales taxes are "fucking retarded", for the reasons enumerated repeatedly. You will also notice that aside from the first sentence, the post is entirely free of your complaint.

I must ask, did you just pop into the thread to insult me for criticizing dragonshardz for spamming an old toady quote in random discussions? It sort of reminds me of that shitty movie, Anger Management, where the guy's sitting on a plane, and asks the flight attendant for something in a voice barely over a whisper, and she freaks the fuck out and starts screaming at him to calm down before attacking him, after which he gets charged with terrorism or something else inane.
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

dragonshardz

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #229 on: December 16, 2010, 02:42:44 pm »

...criticizing dragonshardz for spamming an old toady quote in random discussions?

Since when did posting the quote once and referring to it once, in thread that are both rather heated discussions, constitute spamming?

Also, it's not all that old of a quote.

Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #230 on: December 16, 2010, 02:48:01 pm »

Eh, I saw it twice. How am I supposed to know whether or not you did it elsewhere? Without going out of my way to post stalk you or scour the forums, of course.
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I'm all for eating the heart of your enemies to gain their courage though.

Aqizzar

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #231 on: December 16, 2010, 02:50:47 pm »

Eh, I saw it twice. How am I supposed to know whether or not you did it elsewhere? Without going out of my way to post stalk you or scour the forums, of course.

You could instead just, y'know, calm the Hell down.

Goes for most of this thread over the past forty posts or so.  Especially the people arguing with Andir about sales tax; he threw it out there for the explicit purpose off getting people to fight with him, then you're surprised when he responds with nothing but snark and hot air.  C'mon people.
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And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
Please amplify your relaxed states.
Quote from: PTTG??
The ancients built these quote pyramids to forever store vast quantities of rage.

Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #232 on: December 16, 2010, 03:04:04 pm »

Why the hell do people assume I'm angry? My words are considerably milder than they are in friendly conversation, and nobody gives a shit then.
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Andir

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #233 on: December 16, 2010, 03:08:27 pm »

Especially the people arguing with Andir about sales tax; he threw it out there for the explicit purpose off getting people to fight with him...
I didn't...

The OP wanted discussion.  I got flames...
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Shrugging Khan

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #234 on: December 16, 2010, 04:27:27 pm »

I'm just posting hear to announce that I and Sir Pseudonymous are in no way affiliated, though I do agree with his position on harsh language.
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Not a troll, not some basement-dwelling neckbeard, but indeed a hateful, rude little person. On the internet.
I'm actually quite nice IRL, but you people have to pay the price for that.

Now stop being distracted by the rudeness, quit your accusations of trollery, and start arguing like real men!

Duuvian

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #235 on: December 16, 2010, 04:50:09 pm »

Especially the people arguing with Andir about sales tax; he threw it out there for the explicit purpose off getting people to fight with him...
I didn't...

The OP wanted discussion.  I got flames...

No, you didn't. He just used naughty words to accentuate his position and vehemence regarding tax laws. Also, it was only the idea that he called retarded, not the messenger. The rest of his post was well written and it would have been better if you could have addressed his other points. Perhaps with historic evidence supporting your position that would give people a focal point to discuss.

Here's something I found: https://ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml

Also, Fairtax Calculator appears to be rigged or bugged for poor people.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=calculator
With the Fair Tax, you get:
   -49.58% MORE
                         spendable income.
    $8,060.00 MORE
                         purchasing power.
    $8,220.73 LESS
                         federal taxes.

Yay, less income taxes that I get back anyways, but -49.58% spendable income! Also, I magically get $8,060.00 more purchasing power because the calculator said so! It must be a good plan!

EDIT: I used $20,000 annual earnings, $15,000 on 'used' items (what the hell does that mean? consumables?) and only $200 for Federal income tax because I couldn't be bothered to check what mine was and then round it to the nearest dollar.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:53:27 pm by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Leafsnail

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #236 on: December 16, 2010, 05:09:38 pm »

Uh... that would only seem to make sense if part of the fair tax plan is to massively devalue everything...
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Duuvian

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #237 on: December 16, 2010, 05:30:35 pm »

Uh... that would only seem to make sense if part of the fair tax plan is to massively devalue everything...

What? If you point out the error in my input, I'll correct it. People still work part time jobs, if you are referring to the low annual earnings.

What it seems to me is that this is a plan that encourages people to keep money in banks, which while not a bad thing, could be if they decide to invest excessively overseas (perhaps due to a bad tax plan hurting spending and harming the American internal economy?) If there was a way to ensure that the banks designed to hold American money invest it in America, I don't see a problem with that aspect, but as far as I know there isn't one and someone's pet lawmaker would organize their side and fight it if one was proposed.
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #238 on: December 16, 2010, 05:52:02 pm »

I think he was referring to the results you got, but I'm not sure. Also, at 20K, you'd be at a 15% income tax bracket, though I don't know what that would end up being after deductions for whatever might apply.

I'm just posting hear to announce that I and Sir Pseudonymous are in no way affiliated, though I do agree with his position on harsh language.
That's... a random thing to say. Why would anyone confuse the two of us? We disagree on most points that have come up, and have radically different rhetorical styles. Though the fact that you say affiliated almost makes it sound as though you are someone whom I would know, and who knows who I am. But I don't believe I know anyone with your particular views, certainly no one who could link me to this screen name, so I doubt that that is the case.
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Duuvian

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Re: The "America Question"
« Reply #239 on: December 16, 2010, 06:00:08 pm »

K, I'll re-run it at 15%, will edit this post.
EDIT:
Inputs:
Annual Income: $20,000
Income Tax: $3000 (15%)
Single's Tax Return
Not receiving Social Security Benefits
No Mortgage
No money in IRAs, 401k's, or other pretax plans
$5000 in a savings account (pat yourself on the back doing that at 20k a year)
$0 to charity
$0 in tuition (I'm a student thanks to Pell Grants)
$0 in 'cash gifts' or gift cards (?)
$15,000 in 'used items' (please note this is a very misleading part of this calculator. It's the only place you can input how much of your money you spend, on anything, in the whole calculator. However, it's called the 'used' items, and the info button claims it is only for used car sales and garage sales and the like. What about spending on food? People do that occasionally.)
Combined Local and State Sales Tax: 6%
Proposed Fair Tax Rate: 23%

and the results are:
With the Fair Tax, you get:
   -166.54% MORE
                         spendable income.
    $7,330.75 MORE
                         purchasing power.
    $7,570.73 LESS
                         federal taxes.

EDIT2: Here is how they are trying to trick you with this calculator. The only 'expenditures' listed is for 'used' items. If you plug what you plan to spend in, I'm not sure how the 'used' item affects the result. I suppose it depends on whether they want to make 'used' items taxable or not. I'm guessing not taxable because not only does it create a huge loophole (bets on whether companies can use it?) but it would require people to keep track of it. Plus, having it be the only expenditure available for input in your calculator not covered by the sales tax sure makes it look good, even if it breaks the calculator for purposes of anything but a corporate propaganda tool.

EDIT3: Here are the results if you only spend $500 on 'used' items.
With the Fair Tax, you get:
   41.24% MORE
                         spendable income.
    $3,995.75 MORE
                         purchasing power.
    $4,235.73 LESS
                         federal taxes.

It looks much nicer, doesn't it? However, remember this is BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING THAT THIS TAX AFFECTS. If you have $15,000 to spend due to putting $5k in a savings account, you will actually have about $11.5k (I didn't do the math) if you fit the inputs above, if you spend it on items with taxes on them.

Food costs I just calculated here: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/usdafoodcost-home.htm

puts me at $2011.20 for living a 'thrifty' eating lifestyle annually.
15k-2k =13k
13k x .23 = 2990
13k - 3k = 10k

So, after food and $5000 to savings, like this proposal encourages due to removing taxes on bank profits (including yours), you have roughly $10,000 to pay for taxable things.

Note that this imaginary fellow is not in debt, has no plans to enter debt, and lives with his parents.

For someone else, 400$ a month, an extremly good price for an appartment: $4800 annual = $5200 left, before utilities. Since you are purchasing these things, my guess is there would be tax on them. $1104 on the rent alone. $4100 left. The apartment we rent out costs about $100 a month in utilities, meaning $1200 annually. $2900 left. Taxes on utilities: $276 ; $2425 left for gas, deodorant, soap, and anything else purchasable that isn't edible. Oh yeah, we might be legally required to pay for insurance by the time the Fairtax becomes a looming threat (2012)
Here is a short rundown of how government subsidies work for insurance:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Amusingly enough, I have to wonder if the government would tax itself.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 06:47:17 pm by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit
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