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[Psitticine]

Maybe that's how the humans without boats get the whale meat: the whales beach themselves trying to escape the flaming salmon.

[DuncanFrost]

[bbb]

speaking of caravans...

are trade representatives meant to arrive when you have brokers? (without bookkeeper that is)

seeing as i think i'm in the 5th year (late spring, 1055.. no reclaim)... plenty of nobles, even a trade minister - no bookkeepers!, seen the elf/dwarf/human caravans for a fair few times... but no one coming around for trade agreements

... can't remember when the broker arrived though... aside from definitely before 1055

guess i'll just have to wait and see if one arrives this year
---
human caravan just arrived.. no trade representatives.

[ December 08, 2006: Message edited by: bbb ]

[oksir]

I've got a similar issue, the humans don't send a trade representative, but a diplomat. The diplomat walks around, says that my fortress is nice, and then leaves without offering trade agreements. I've got nobles up to the baron.

[Adder]

I'm also not seeing trade representitives in my  current fortress. Also, the caravans aren't getting any bigger, always just two mules or two mules and two wagons for the humans.

[Toady One]

The issues I can see:

(1) Have you had an overall positive trade experience with the humans?  (more importantly, have they profited from dealing with you, and you haven't antagonized their caravans)

(2) Do you have a broker?

(3) Is their trade rep still alive?

[bbb]

1) not too certain.. maybe minor profit.. though i think i did some offering almost every time.. on the other hand, i think some of my sentries (ie military stationed near entrance... and on duty are raiding the beer when they come in... at least for this year (just noticed that)... don't know why... seeing as i've got a thousand barrels of beer in the fortress in 3 separate locations

will try to give them massive profit (ie.. goods dumping!)

does the gap between "imported wealth" and exported wealth (overall that is) make any difference? imported wealth being what immigrants bring with them (+ start...)

2) there is a broker, no bookkeeper or baron as yet

3) no idea if they are alive.. never showed

--------
speaking of raiding traders... how do i know if i'm paying for the stuff that has been raided? just load up their profit?

.... ps.. applies to all races.. no representative at all from anyone yet...

[ December 09, 2006: Message edited by: bbb ]

[oksir]

(1) Yes, never killed them or stole from them, and always gave them extra goods.

(2) Yes.

(3) He didn't die at my fortress, he never showed up at all. Since I've got my trade minister I get a human diplomat, not a merchant baron. The diplomat never died either.

I also have only 2 wagons per caravan, even though I've been trading for 5+ years now.

[Adder]

1)Yes, I offered a few things to the first few caravans, and gave the last few great deals on narrow clothing. They've lost two guards in six  trips after attacking wildlife. I don't think any merchants have been killed.

2)I have both a broker and a trade minister.

3)Never arrived.

[Bask]

1) At first yes, then no. I traded narrow/small clothing, and metal crafts. They had profit in the thousands. Diplomat comes (at weird times, like after dwarven caravan), meets baron, nice place, leaves. Later many humans were killed by siegers (goblins and elves), still diplomat comes, situation the same.

2) All combinations:
broker+, bookkeeper-, baron-;
broker+, bookkeeper+, baron-;
broker-, bookkeeper-, baron+;
broker-, bookkeeper+, baron+.
Probably other combinations as well.
Other nobles up to hoardmaster and trade minister at times (when not shot by goblins).

3) Trade rep survives every time.

[Ookpik]

Sorry for the "me too" post, but I just hit the ten-year mark in my most recent game.  My human caravans have never increased in size (still 2 wagons), and I have never been given the opportunity to set up trade treaties.  I always treat human caravans perfectly:  trading honestly, never attacking or stealing, etc.

I have maybe 10 nobles now.  No bookkeeper, but that shouldn't matter, should it?

[randomjgj]

Just to throw in evidence to the contrary, I've been able to make trade agreements and have gotten more than two wagons from the humans when trading.  Started this fortress with v0.21.105.21a and have upgraded along the way to the current v0.22.120.23a.  Fwiw...

Edit:

Oh yeah, I finished the road shortly after the beginning of spring in the second year.  

And,

(1) I've had good trading with the humans, not stealing from them and always making sure they make at least a 10% profit since I got the broker.

(2) Yes, I have the broker and a trade minister.  I got the bookkeeper after those two.  Nothing further than the Mayor yet, but since I'm over 100 dwarves now, I expect to see a few more nobles in this the spring of my sixth year.

(3)  I haven't had any trade reps die.  I've only lost one member of a trading caravan.  That was one of the dwarf merchants from the autumn caravan, my first goblin siege started right after they unloaded in the depot and they were unfortunate enough to be downwind of the goblin archers that were shooting at the war dogs that were on the road.  That was enough to make them bail, but the rest of them made it off the map ok since my group of stalwart crossbowdwarves had broken the siege.

/edit

[ December 09, 2006: Message edited by: randomjgj ]

[Adder]

For me, the world was created in 0.22.110.23b and the fortress was created and run entirely under 0.22.120.23a with no other fortresses in the world. Question for randomjgj: Did you upgrade before or after getting trade reps for the first time?

[Toady One]

And no acrimony with the humans in previous games?  They might hold it against dwarves from the same civ in the next game.  Also, if you go on any rampages in towns with adventurers and killed the trade rep, the trade rep is dead.

[Adder]

The world was fresh, with no previous fortresses or adventurers. I have saves from both shortly before the arrival of the first human caravan and the first arrival with wagons if those would help.