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[KaelGotDwarves]

At first we were looking for "attractive female geeks" in works of fiction but now we're trying to see if we can skip the "nerd-bait sexualisation" of those women by finding "well-developed female characters" who may be 'geeky'.

[DJ]

Cersei Lannister. Yeah, she has a lot of sex in the books, and yeah she's supposed to be hot, but I'd still say she's a lot more than just an ornament in the series.

[Vector]

Cersei Lannister. Yeah, she has a lot of sex in the books, and yeah she's supposed to be hot, but I'd still say she's a lot more than just an ornament in the series.

But is she multidimensional?  Is she more than just a pillar of motherly uncaring, incest, and villainy?

(To be honest, I think this search is a lot easier in theater.  Doll's House, for example, by Ibsen)

[DJ]

I don't see how she's less multidimensional than Bryanne of Tarth or Jon Snow. Not quite as developed as the Imp, but then again nobody is. She's certainly miles above Daenerys.

[Vector]

Being as developed as Bryanne or Jon Snow doesn't make her well-developed, does it?

Meh.  I don't have any particular argument either way, especially because I've only finished two of those books.

[fqllve]

I don't see how she's less multidimensional than Bryanne of Tarth or Jon Snow. Not quite as developed as the Imp, but then again nobody is. She's certainly miles above Daenerys.

I am so confused by this. Gonna guess that the answer is "Yes."

I'm so damn stumped I'm just gonna say Lain. Because I really can't think of any others.

[MrGimp]

Multidimensional?  Theres only three dimensions on a woman I care about.

I dont know why some guys seem to be looking for authentic nerdy women.  Theyre rare (if they exist) and for me at least, it doesnt matter anyways, because I like fake plastic bimbos.  I LIKE the blonde airheads that never talked to me in high school.....thats why I chased after them, and thats why you guys did too. I was usually rejected, and became ostracized as a 'nerd'....but that doesnt change my deep biological programming.  The fact that us nerds tend to eventually get better jobs and more money is the greatest blessing in the world.  Women (Humans?) will do more for money than they will for love anyways, it would be my advice to focus on the sweetness of that bittersweet fact.

If I want deep conversation Ill come here and places like this to speak with my nerd brothers, Im not gonna go looking for some female to talk to about quantum physics.  Thats just a bad idea all around. 

[Vector]

... What were her motivations during the series, anyway?

This is a serious question.  I actually don't remember.

I LIKE the blonde airheads that never talked to me in high school.....thats why I chased after them, and thats why you guys did too.

If I want deep conversation Ill come here and places like this to speak with my nerd brothers, Im not gonna go looking for some female to talk to about quantum physics.  Thats just a bad idea all around.

I'm a female math student who has never chased a woman in my life, even though I did have an offer from a blond and "three-dimensional" chick.

There are women here, you know, and they're actually educated.  The bad idea is in assuming their intellect cannot touch yours.

[fqllve]

I LIKE the blonde airheads that never talked to me in high school.....thats why I chased after them, and thats why you guys did too.

I disagree with this. Firstly, I prefer brunettes. Secondly, not everyone chased after the "attractive girls" in high school. I didn't chase after anyone, or talk to anyone, or really make eye contact with anyone. And even if I did chase after anyone it wouldn't have been after geeky girls, or hot girls, but girls who I could hold a conversation with.

Because some of us are complete sissies and we prefer the one person we're going to be emotionally open with is also someone with whom we're on the same intellectual level.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think you're all overreacting. So some Hollywood suits decided that it was time to exploit..."geek"... if you wish to call it that. So what? They do that to every subculture they can get their hands on, and seem to be moving from generic geek to gamer at the moment.

Plus, by going on this search for decent female geeks in media, you're playing into those very suit's hands. Real life is not like media. Cheerleaders and Jocks aren't all cursed with extreme agression towards everyone and an IQ of 35. Teachers aren't all malicious lunatics. White people aren't all non-street smart and black people aren't all trying to be rap stars. Collage students don't exist to have wild parties, join extreme campus groups, and then barely pass the final. Teenage girls don't exist to swoon and squeel at the sound of the name "Justin Bieber" and teenage boys don't exist to fail at geting said girls attention. And finally, geeks don't exist to sit in a basement and pretend to be elves for three hours a week. We all know this, but if you only paid attention to media, you'd know none of this.

Come on people, we all read TvTropes, you should be aware of this stuff!

[Sowelu]

Geeks are boring.  They think instead of doing stuff.  They get really into projects that doesn't make much sense to anyone who hasn't spent a lot of time doing the same thing.  How do you portray that in a favorable light?

They're not bad.  Hell, a lot of us count.  But they're just not *interesting*.  Yes, we would probably enjoy a show about tabletop gamers who played some fictional system, engineered so that you don't need internal knowledge to play it.  But we'd probably be able to figure out the rules pretty fast too; would it be as interesting to us to watch a show about railfans?

I dunno.  Just think of "engineers" as the new "geek" and you'll feel better.

...Big Bang Theory is my least favorite show of all time.  :X

Okay, though, hrm.  I would say that geekiness is not very universal, which makes it really hard to portray in mass media.  Some geeks like WoW.  Some geeks like M:tG.  Some geeks like Pokemon.  Some of them really, really hate one or more of those.  So what the hell do we all have in common?  How do you market that?  You can't just say "good at science", or every single CSI + medical show counts.

[alway]

Okay, though, hrm.  I would say that geekiness is not very universal, which makes it really hard to portray in mass media.  Some geeks like WoW.  Some geeks like M:tG.  Some geeks like Pokemon.  Some of them really, really hate one or more of those.  So what the hell do we all have in common?  How do you market that?  You can't just say "good at science", or every single CSI + medical show counts.

I would have to say we have highly specialized skill sets, in some cases to the point of being nearly useless. That combined with the social awkwardness are more or less what makes up a geek. As for marketing it, once you push the mis-truth of shy but socially competent, the plot can be arranged in such a way as to make the highly specialized skill set in question relevant. At that point, all that's left to do is set up the actions of the character to make them seem at least a little badass.

[Sowelu]

Is the problem the conflux of "skilled" and "socially awkward"?  If that's the issue, maybe the real problem is people identifying with that.  Yes, it's a trope.  But why would you ever want to identify with that?

Geek is, like, a larval stage of "awesome highly-skilled person with some odd and highly specific hobbies".  I know a lot of people who have *huge* skillsets and lots of sweet hobbies...who, if their skills were cut to about 1/4th of what they are, would qualify as geeks.  It's kind of like geeks studied deep instead of broadly.  Don't think of being a geek as a place to stop, think of it as a starting place and you'll feel better about the media portrayals.

[Criptfeind]

I don't know Sowelu, I have always though Geek was the end goal and nerd was the larval stage.

[Itnetlolor]

Wow, sizable discussion to read through.

In regards to the whole definition of nerd and geek debate, I recall seeing a Venn-Diagram of the descriptive traits combined:

Spoiler: Venn-Diagram (click to show/hide)

I've never been a real fan of the media portrayal of nerds/geeks; and seldom do they ever get close (I would consider House to be pretty accurate). I think because we're such a varied culture in society, they have to mock up an "average" stereotype that can describe them all at the same time. They did poorly, I must say, and has been that way for God knows how long.