Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[The Dog Delusion]

I have a very sad, embarassing admission to make: despite having played DF 2010 on a couple of embarks, just to fool around, I still do about 95% of my playing in the old DF 28.xxx

I dunno - I guess it was initially because I was waiting for a few of the bugs to get worked out...then I was waiting for the graphics set to get updated to work with it...then I didn't want to figure out the military screen...and then I was completely turned off by having to muddy up any non-surface ground in order to farm on it. Maybe it's that having finally clawed my way up the learning cliff in the older version, I'm a bit intimidated at the idea of having to re-learn the interface and mechanics of the game.

I still read the update logs every day. I love reading about the new stuff toady is doing. I even keep reading the threads here to see what kinds of cool things other people are up to. But for some reason, I'm stuck in pre-april of 2010 Dwarf Fortress. It feels...familiar...not always predictable, but just somehow comfortable.

As anyone else doing the same thing, or feeling the same way? Did anyone else out there hesitate, but eventually make the jump over to the new version? Or did most folks just switch as soon as the newest version came out? What's the best way to switch over, and are the "problems" that 2010 has (that were not present in 28.xxx) as easy to ignore or work around as you guys make it look?


sorry for such an undwarfy thread, but I just recently grew tired of my last fortress, and I'm trying to convince myself to take the plunge instead of genning up yet another world in the older version of the game...

[Particleman]

Yes, muddying ground is annoying and an intimidating obstacle at first, but after you've done it a few times it's not a big deal. A quick and dirty (but easy and effective) way to do it is:

1: Dig out large area next to pond.
2: Breach pond wall.
3: Wait for water to evaporate and farm on resultant mud.

More elaborate ways involve mechanisms and doors or floodgates. This has the advantage of being easier to expand, but more time consuming to set up.

Or you can just say to hell with underground farming altogether and do all your farming on the surface.

I found the biggest stumbling block to be the new military interface, which, yes, looks really intimidating at first, but once you sit down and fiddle with it for a little while most of it makes a lot of sense.

[snelg]

The military interface takes a bit time to get familiar with, and use in general I think. But it lets you do some interesting things. The new way of ordering the soldiers around works very well but sometimes the dwarves don't for some reason. There are some problems with a lot of the new things in the 2010 versions but nothing game-breaking that I know of (except maybe that goblins seem to kill eachother in the latest one for some reason). For instance the health care dwarves seem to have trouble applying casts unless they've got buckets filled with water ready. And having soap lying around in the stockpiles will cause a lot of people failing to use it and announce it every time.

I guess there's some stuff here: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Known_bugs_and_issues
But I'm not sure if it's been updated lately etc.

[Shrugging Khan]

I'd advise you to boldy go where no you has ever gone before.

Seriously, just jump right in. The new versions will only get better over time, and more things will always be added. If now you don't step ahead, then how much more difficult will it be in the future, with greater and greater amounts of features and changes inlcuded?

[Internet Kraken]

and then I was completely turned off by having to muddy up any non-surface ground in order to farm on it.

Then you should just do what I do and have all your farming take place in the caverns. The cavern floor is always muddy. Plus you get to enjoy all the other benefits the caverns provide. They're one of my favortie things about DF at the moment. Becuase caverns are universal across all embarks, you will be exposed to a much larger diversity of creatures than the ones native to your embark site. Makes the game more interesting.

[Shoku]

Reign in your emotions and master them like you've bent the stone in the ground to your will so many times before. Build a mighty fortress in your mind from which you will send forth doomed expeditions into the new menus and caverns but that shall one day lead you to the same bold mastery of 2010 as you have over 40d.

Really though if there's that much inertia to overcome then try something different: embark intentionally trying to lose a fortress to some feature quickly. Just horribly dangerous and haphazard stuff to see how bad things can be. There's not usually much resistance left after you've experienced the worst or close to it. And even if you experience the worst against your will you usually find that it wasn't so bad.

[Sutremaine]

...then I didn't want to figure out the military screen...and then I was completely turned off by having to muddy up any non-surface ground in order to farm on it.

The second is more of a reversion than a new feature. 2D had all sites with everything and things deep underground that would kill you horribly without warning, 3D had z-levels. 2010 combines the two of them somewhat. That might not be much help to you (except maybe as a vague 'embrace change before it becomes the norm' message), but the day-to-day civilian running of the fortress is much the same as it was in 40d. One exception: disable skill and attribute decay before you even open DF for the first time. Otherwise you'll soon be playing Cripple Fortress without having made any contribution of your own, and that's no fun at all.

The military screen... Yeah, so far I've managed to create a burrow and alert to replicate the important part of the 'dwarves indoors' order, and that's it. Invasions are off at the moment; even if they weren't I'd just wall myself in and ignore the cries of the traders. Since I don't know if the replacement of liaisons functions correctly, I'll play it safe and enforce peace.

You might as well gen a world in the new version and start playing. As long as you don't want anything done that would have required a military in 40d, you can play as 'normal' and take the military screen at your own pace. Just save first, and scum if you feel as though you've made an irreversable mess of the settings.

Personally it's the healthcare system that terrifies me, though given what I've heard about it that's a healthy attitude. I played 2010 as soon as it came out but was put off by the new complications and bugs, and I've only just come back.

[Shoku]

There are a number of exciting and very functional airlocks you can design for traders. The easiest to think of yourself is to have the depot on it's own little island with a drawbridge that lets traders onto it and one that lets your dwarves onto it. Obviously only one of these need go down at a time. The one bridge method though, allows for an airtight depot. It still basically has it's own island but when the bridge is down it covers the ramps that would let the traders up and in.

Anyway as for healthcare it isn't exactly the healthcare that's so rough. Any good 40d player will recall the rather huge number of dwarven recruits that ended up forever bedridden with spinal injuries and so forth. Now sparring absolutely cannot cause injuries (though I imagine Toady will revert this to a slim chance of injury at some point) but instead legendary dwarves are not quite as powerful in relation to the foes they face. The real killer in typical combat injuries is the infection, but this is greatly negated by having set up a well and having some soap. The mistakes of your amateur surgeons and such are more hilarious than dreadful as survival and recovery from injuries feels like it has taken a big net movement up from 40d, so long as you've got some cloth and soap around. There's a bug with the gypsum powder they use for casts if I recall correctly so look into that if you run into a dwarf that needs one and you care about them.

The other good use for a burrow though comes from when you've got a squad properly outfitted. You can have them zip around a cavern or the surface slaughtering the wildlife and generally making it safe for your plant harvesters and such, while potentially creating some food.
This does lead you into the thing about healthcare that people fear the most (though largely just on the scale of being bitten by vermin sized cave spiders.) Either way it's wise to create a wading pool at the junction between your fort and the caverns. Just a little square of ramps with water bucketed in to 3 deep. Guess you could throw in a 4/7 tile to slowly slowly give your dwarves dabbling swimmer.

[Hydrall]

I feel your pain. I mostly play 40d as well. Only recently did I actually sit down and figure this thing out, and now I actually like it more than 40d.

Well, the military at least. Muddying the ground sucks.

[Xenos]

I feel your pain. I mostly play 40d as well. Only recently did I actually sit down and figure this thing out, and now I actually like it more than 40d.

Well, the military at least. Muddying the ground sucks.

Its super easy if you have a floodgate/door and 3 mechanisms (if you use a few more mechanisms to set up a pressure plate auto-shutoff trigger its helpful.  That or dont take your eyes off it until you shut it off.)  Or a well and a few buckets (this method takes some time.  Be warned.)
I get the military screen, the alerts, and burrows, I just don't know how to get my military to train rather than camp out not doing much. :/  Maybe I should stop making an almost entirely ranged based military...

[Hydrall]

Personally, I find marksdwarves to be the most useful soldiers around against normal foes, and if anything worse comes I just shut the doors.

Also, I tried the pressure plate thing before. Either the floodgate got stuck somehow or it didn't work- either way I flooded my fort.

[mrbobbyg]

You can do this!

I held out until .12, and I regret the time I lost.

Here is the biggest thing.  No more exploratory mining for a season to find a single vein of ore.  No more completely useless phylite layers.  You get some serious resources here.

The military will sort itself out.  Read about danger rooms in the wiki, and make one.  You;ll have them to legendary in a year max.

And it's really not that hard to flood a farm.  If you don't play with machines much, you should give it a shot.  Linking a lever to a floodgate is basic, but empowering the first time you do it.  Next thing you know you'll be making a reactor powered pump stack to bring that magma up to the surface where it belongs.

[Dude_Jebawe]

Well, if you really can't be bothered to farm underground, the milking system has been fixed, so bring some milkable creatures(Camel, Cow, Donkey, Horse) and make lots of milk and cheese. You'll still need plants for booze, but in the right climate you can use plant gathering and farm above ground, or if worse comes to worst, fresh water from a well will keep your fortress functional, if not productive. Hell, maybe even supplementing the water with whatever booze the caravans happen to bring could keep your dwarves happy.

Actually, making a fortress entirely dependant on milking and cheese making for food is quite a lot of fun.

[Hydrall]

Izzat meant to be with a capitol F or not?

It's an important distinction.

[Dude_Jebawe]

Well, the first few times might be with a capital F.