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Author Topic: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?  (Read 7790 times)

GaelicVigil

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2010, 03:21:46 pm »

Oh, and one more thing.  Where do people get the idea that Vampires are akin to mindless Zombies?  In every famous classical Vampire story, they have always been extremely cunning, very intelligent, and seducers.  Twilight has not deviated from this at all.  If anything, Nosferatu and its ilk has deviated from "classic" vampire (as in the grandfather: Dracula), not Twilight.

Dracula was not a "classic" vampire.

Sure, if we're talking about vampiric characters in literature, I guess he'd be a good place to start.  But he isn't where the whole "vampire" thing started.  Vampires existed in folklore for hundreds of years before Stoker ever thought about writing a story about them.  He based his "vampire" more on the whole Vlad Dracul story than on any vampire folklore.

Traditional folklore portrayed vampires more like zombies than living things.  They slept in the dirt, they smelled bad, they had precious little self-determination.  They basically existed solely to feed on the living.  They weren't romantic, they weren't crafty.

It depends on how you define Classical.  I agree with Wikipedia's defnition: Classical things are often seen as ordered and part of high culture or a golden age, and contrasted to earlier or later things which may be seen as chaotic, elaborate or emotional.


Vampires did not become popular, a part of a "high culture", or deeply ingrained in the Psyche of modern horror media until Dracula came along.  If people were asked in a poll to describe a "Vampire", I'd put money on people describing something akin to Dracula  over a stinky, mindless Zombie creature/thing.

My point is that the Vampires in Twilight (other than the Cullens), are closer to the "Classic" Romantic Vampire like Dracula, not the origins of the Vampire creature you describe in folk lore.

But again, it's how you define what the "Classical" Vampire really is.  The OP's question is flawed in this respect because he doesn't state which type he refers to.
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Akura

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2010, 03:22:33 pm »

I think I've heard of psychic vampires, but I can't remember the context. Pretty sure it was something really weird. :)
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2010, 03:23:47 pm »

I think I've heard of psychic vampires, but I can't remember the context. Pretty sure it was something really weird. :)
Interview With a Vampire?
Nah, those are vampires that are psychic, not ones that feed on psychic energies. Believe me, my sister is obcessed with those books and used to talk about them all the time.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2010, 03:24:30 pm »

I think I've heard of psychic vampires, but I can't remember the context. Pretty sure it was something really weird. :)
Psychic Vampires are the types of people who are emotionally (and spiritually) draining. Simply put, these are the kinds of people to stay away from if you want either the energy to do something, or to have a good day.

Some are antagonists that aim to antagonize for the hell of it (SEE: Trolls), and others are just so depressing to be around it's infectious.

Sowelu

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2010, 03:27:29 pm »

Just for the record, since someone brought up zombies--what usually makes them scary isn't that they are slow shambling monsters, but that they are sieging you.  Whether it's zombies everywhere, or vampires (30 days of night), or werewolves (Dog Soldiers), siege movies are their own thing.  Zombies are largely tricky because there's so many of them, and quite often there's nowhere to run.  Oh yeah and the one wound equals a fate worse than death thing, any monster that can do that is scary.  Vampire movies don't usually have "Let's hide in the attic and not make a sound, maybe the vampire will walk past the house and not notice us".

Urf.  I shouldn't derail.

Oh yeah and I don't know anything about those books, but most-keyword-most psivamps are just people who are just naturally tiring to be around.  Everyone knows someone like that.  The only difference is that these people put a name on it and, in so doing, found a way to keep their friends instead of losing 'em.

Some, though?  Well.  Not all crazy things are made up.  Agreed with Itnetlolor though.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2010, 03:28:07 pm »

Dracula was implied to have gained vampirism through the practice of witchcraft, IIRC. Bram Stoker's novel said his powers came from having attended some kind of black magic academy called the Scholomance.


On zombies, I am still of the mind, as I've stated elsewhere, that they are not, and not supposed to be, horror novels at all, but rather escapist adventure novels disguised as horror ones. Just like every vampire novel ever since Anne Rice has hovered somewhere between romance novels and slashfic.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 03:30:34 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Soadreqm

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2010, 03:32:10 pm »

As an afterthought, here's the Oxford English Dictionary definition for "vampire". This is what a bunch of bearded tossers at a prestigious university think the word entails:
Spoiler: OED (click to show/hide)
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Sowelu

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2010, 03:33:01 pm »

Dracula was implied to have gained vampirism through the practice of witchcraft, IIRC. Bram Stoker's novel said his powers came from having attended some kind of black magic academy called the Scholomance.

You're kidding.  Speaking of slashfic, names like that would break suspension of disbelief even in bad HP fanfiction.
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fqllve

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2010, 03:45:15 pm »

I wouldn't be calling them "wolf" - I'd be calling them "werewolf", because they still have similarities to werewolves.  They change at the full moon, they turn into animals, they kill people.  Makes as much sense as calling the things in Twilight vampires.

I meant the wolf part of werewolf, not that you would just be calling them wolves. The wolf part is absolutely meaningless to the new example and is not analogic to Twilight vampires.

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But a fairly common trait of vampires is that they despise the sunlight.  It either kills them outright, or renders them catatonic, or removes their supernatural powers, or whatever.

Of all the vampire folktales I've heard very few of them mention anything about the sunlight. They mostly take place at night, but that's because night is scary, you'd expect monsters to come out at night even if they could come out during the day. Especially if they're shambling corpses.

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Only because he is labeled as such.  If we didn't have an author telling us that he was a vampire, I doubt if anyone would call him that.  If we were just presented with his assorted attributes, without a label, I doubt if anyone would race to call him a vampire.

Sure, he drinks blood and he's got fangs...  But that's really where the similarities end, isn't it?

He has eternal life. He's undead. Pale skin. Byronic (which thanks to Dracula means vampire ALWAYS apparently).

But yeah, even if was only has fangs, drinks blood that's pretty much all you need for someone to call him a vampire these days.

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Is that how it works?  Or do things define the cultures?

You're confusing two definitions of the word culture. I meant "a group of people who share ideas, beliefs, traditions" not "the ideas, beliefs, traditions shared by a group of people." You're right, a culture is defined by its beliefs, but the people within that culture define its beliefs.

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In Dracula, the author states that he is a vampire.  The author told us what to believe.  People of the time would not have associated that description with a vampire.  Now, years later, we accept that definition.  The thing defined the culture.

In Frankenstein, nobody claims anyone is a vampire.  So we don't make that association.

He may have told us what to believe, but if people didn't find it credible they wouldn't believe it. If I wrote a fanfiction based on Frankenstein and claim Viktor is a vampire, it'd probably be called out as bullshit unless I can prove it from the original text. If I write a story about a vampire but he sparkles and can go out into the sun, and refuses to drink human blood I'll have people calling me out for making a shitty interpretation of vampires.

Audiences aren't as passive as we believe. They make judgments, agree or disagree with the author.

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Words are labels for thoughts, concepts, and things.  A particular series of grunts and whistles doesn't have any meaning in and of itself.  But the only reason that "bicycle" actually means "that thing with pedals and two wheels" is because everyone has agreed on that.  If I personally decide to start "car" instead of "bicycle" nobody is going to know what I'm talking about.

Bold is exactly what I said in different words.

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The meaning isn't going to suddenly change because I use a different word.

Yes, the meaning of words shifts over time.  "Moron" used to be a medical diagnosis, now it's a simple insult.

But that's due to a slow shift in the connotation, not because somebody wakes up one morning and declares that a purring furry thing with four legs is a cactus.

Someone has to be the first person to initiate the change in meaing. If other people hear it, like it, then they're going to adopt it. If one day you write an article explaining that bicycles are in fact cars, and people who read it find it well reasoned, then they might start calling bicycles cars. It won't be immediate, but it can be faster than you think.

Regardless, no one thinks that the baseline defintion of vampire is "sparkles in the sunlight" because of twilight. Twilight is a modification of that concept and it's a modification many people find acceptable.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 03:48:05 pm by fqllve »
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KaguroDraven

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2010, 03:51:15 pm »

Really? I've noticed most people seem to dispise it.
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Earthquake Damage

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2010, 03:51:42 pm »

... the baseline defintion of vampire is "sparkles in the sunlight"

Behold, vampires!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regardless, no one thinks that ...

Yeah, you're probably right.
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fqllve

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2010, 03:58:24 pm »

Really? I've noticed most people seem to dispise it.

Hey! I said many. Besides, how many preteen girls do you talk to?

Behold, vampires!

Those are the prettiest fucking vampires I have ever seen.


Oh man. Does this mean we can make a sequel to Blood Diamond called Blood Vampire? Because that would make me so happy.
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Neonivek

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2010, 05:53:58 pm »

Is Twilight even "New Age"? It is just one book

Even Twilight doesn't know how its own vampires work (nor is it consistant with it)

So how could even twilight define new vampires?

Because it's massively popular and likely spawning a bunch of imitators.

But here's a question, what the fuck did Twilight even do that was original? Sparkling? Yes. Vampires can have children? Likely yes. Go out in the sun? No. Don't need human blood necessarily? No. Sexy and gloomy? No, that was Bram Stoker. So what? I don't imagine that the imitators will be imitating sparkling. The only thing I can think of is that "New Age" vampires are ones that are the love interest in supernatural romances targeted towards pre-teen girls.

Actually your falling into THE INCONSISTANCY OF TWILIGHT!!!

Vampires cannot have children in Twilight... except when they can (Bella Sue makes all the rules)
Vampires cannot go into the sun, except when they can

Let me add some more

Vampires are attracted to blood, except when they are
Vampires are reanimated corpses, except when they are not
The only way to kill a vampire is to cut them to peices and burn them, except when it isn't
Vampires cannot stop themselves from sucking blood, except when they can
Vampires is powerful enough to follow you across entire states, except when it isn't

Twilight doesn't know what even their own vampires are.
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Javarock

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2010, 06:06:41 pm »

Traditional vampires are shambling, rotting beasts that drink blood and are rendered completely helpless if you throw a handful of rice in front of them. The kind of big, bad monster that could be easily bested by a medieval peasant if he kept his wits about him. Then came Bram Stoker, ruining it for everyone with his "ancient immortal supervillain" breed of vampire that owned a castle and entertained guests and could turn himself into mist and pour through keyholes.
:P

Really, there's loads of vampire myths, and one of them isn't conclusively the "right" one. Even drinking blood isn't constant. Sometimes they drink some kind of vaguely defined "life energy". Sometimes they don't really HAVE to drink blood, but do it anyway. I'd say that any creature that drains life from other creatures to extend his own could definitely be called a vampire. The other approach is making up your own bullshit word, and those end up just sounding silly, half the time.

Succubus steal life energy from men to prolong there own. But yeah I get what your driveing at.


By the way I love zombies thats my horrer favriot, Funny watching zombies killed. The scary part is there in large hordes, Or or rotting flesh. Ect ect. And fit quite well in modren citys.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 06:18:50 pm by Javarock »
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nenjin

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Re: Obsession with "New Age" Vampires?
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2010, 06:30:34 pm »

Re: Psychic Vampires, I first heard the term in The Celestine Prophecy, I think.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 06:33:00 pm by nenjin »
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