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[KaguroDraven]

I'm not 100% if they are in the game or not but while playing around with my own sleeper agents I had a great idea, what if the CCS made their own sleepers? Ones who do the same things yours do, includeing steaing and getting incriminateing evidence from you, by pretending to be 'recruited' by you. If it's not in the game yet, is it possible for someone to mod it in?

[Zangi]

"But... Eduardo... you have over 200 juice... why... why do you betray me?  I take you from the American sweatshop, feed you, cloth you...  I've taught you the liberal way... And this... this is how you repay me?"

*Bang.*

[KaguroDraven]

I was thinking more, they steal money from you over time, or steal objects in storage, or give the CCS info on your activities.

[Vicid]

Warning BGII spoiler 

I don't know if my poor gaming soul can handle another

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yoshimo T_T T_T T_T T_T

[Kay12]

I was thinking more, they steal money from you over time, or steal objects in storage, or give the CCS info on your activities.

Wouldn't it be kind of easy (for the player) to notice money or equipment dwindling away? If the sleeper is quickly exposed just by careful micro-tracking of money loss/heat gain, the system would suck. However, the sleepers must be distinguishable in some way. Perhaps having them a heavily fail-biased roll in all activites except combat rolls against armed enemies (not arch-conservatives) to represent purposefully failing at critical tasks to undermine the LCS from within. When in combat against armed enemies, the roll should be less biased as the conservative sleeper doesn't want to get KIA, but neither wants to help the LCS too much. Rolls that have only effect on the sleeper himself (running away from the cops for example) should be left untouched.

[EuchreJack]

As long as the traitors only effect the LCS globally, it would be impossible to track.  But it would have to effect the LCS regardless of whether the traitor is in prison, in the hospital, "away", or whatever.  As long as the member is part of the the LCS, the effect is felt.

[Kay12]

As long as the traitors only effect the LCS globally, it would be impossible to track.

So, it is impossible to track who is stealing the cash if it starts disappearing right after mr. Wile. E. Conservative joins in? Also, if there are traitors, the player must be given adequate tools to deal with them. This presents us with two problems that are each other's opposites: CCSleepers mustn't be obvious, as that sums up to just getting rid of the CCSleeper and recruiting someone else. As new recruits aren't exactly priceless in LCS, even a clip for a weapon you don't use is not as disposable as a likely CCSleeper.

The other problem is that it still must be possible to discover and deal with CCSleepers. There's little point in presenting unavoidable extra difficulty in the game. LCS is bordering fake difficulty in many aspects already.

Also, what kind of ill effects would a CCSleeper have? These effects mustn't make their presence too evident or be impossible to trace. Also, the sleeper must still be useful in some way, I mean, they are supposed to retain their cover as double agents. It's a fine balance in many ways we seek here.


Unfortunately, I find it a tad hard to picture CCSleepers myself. You see, it's very liberal having a police officer playing a tough guy while actually providing intel and equipment for the LCS, but having a cold-hearted redneck become a hippie (even though a fake one) and join the protests against DP and animal testing... doesn't sound like what a conservative would do.

[EuchreJack]

Two thoughts:

1) In order for it to not be obvious who the traitor is, the traitor should not activate until after a random number of months, and the global effects should only occur monthly.

2) I also suggest the damage to the LCS gets worse as the traitor gains juice, as this could be seen to represent the traitor's infiltration of the LCS.

With these, one can eventually determine who the traitor is, but only after they have gained substantial juice.  The tools already exist to eliminate the traitor, see the kill and release commands on the character page.

I realize that since I have no coding ability, it will come down to somebody liking the idea, then implementing it however they see fit.  I'm ok with that.

[Kay12]

The tools already exist to eliminate the traitor, see the kill and release commands on the character page.

I didn't mean the actual moment of termination, but rather the very process: Discovering that one has traitors, finding out who they are, and dealing with the issue at hand.

We must also bear in mind that it isn't fun recruiting someone, spending ages training him/her to use assault rifles/swords/whatever and then realizing that "oh, he's a bastard traitor".

In many ways, I would like a more covert CCS instead of (or in addition to) the current militia-style organization (although it suits the conservatives well). However, the sleeper system would be hard to make balanced and fun to play.

[EuchreJack]

The player could always wipe out the CCS.  That would eliminate the traitor effects also.

Under my theory, the traitor only does "global" damage to the LCS.  Decreases cash, increases safehouse heat, makes some items go missing, etc.  But in all other respects the traitor is completely loyal to the LCS.  Essentially, I invision the traitor being more of the "agent provocator" or informant type, and not really a "face-to-heel turner".

While this is less dynamic, it also makes the traitor less likely to be detected.  The player can also choose to continue using the traitor if valuable skill and stat wise, despite the effects on the LCS.

And if the damage increases with juice, the player can even seek to discredit the traitor via intentional botched site actions, instead of outright termination.

It should also be pointed out that under the current code, a high-juice LCS member is less likely to betray the LCS upon being released, which may seem counter-intutive when dealing with traitors.  Then again, it also could represent how much the traitor has been "tainted" by the LCS.

[Supercharazad]

I'd like to add to this, what if the sleepers could become slowly liberal over time? Like if you get them to Liberal Guardian, they will become liberal?

Just my 2 pennies.