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Author Topic: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*  (Read 7310 times)

thegoatgod_pan

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Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« on: November 28, 2010, 03:53:21 am »

***EDITED WITH SUBTRACTIONS AND ADDITIONS.***

So I started an embark to test ghosts--can they kill goblins? what kinds are there? etc. 

The plan is (was) simple--none get burial, none get slabs--everyone remains in Spiralchanted--living or dead.
What I have learned so far:

1.  Most ghosts are largely benign--they haunt, lowering happiness, but they do not bother*

*except with doors--they seem to open doors--two farm floods and several hallway-of-freezing-doom fatalities later I can testify that the ghosts even open doors which are mechanically wired closed**

***although, possibly this was all caused by my cave-in traps

Benign type seem to fall into several varieties ( I think I am missing one-the missing type is the kind that follows one dwarf at a time--I can't find any in the fort right now)

A. Restless Haunts bother relatives and acquaintances, and thus spend most of their time in training rooms, farms, etc.

B. Forlorn Haunts hang near where they died, or another chosen location--e.g. floating in the empty space where the aquifier was frozen (killing several miners) and carved out, but also some random lake in a cavern where no dwarf ever went.

C. Angry ghosts--these will cause problems, killing and maiming.  To date I have never observed a ghost injure a goblin or an animal except indirectly via possession**, only dwarves are targeted.  Ghosts that possess others never seem to attack directly, just as ghosts that attack directly never seem to possess others,  Possessed dwarves are blamed for crimes committed during possession with appropriate criminal consequences (beating, imprisonment etc). 

**"Possess" here is not the same as the artifact making possession and as other people's *science* indicates seems to be unrelated.  It only refers to when a ghost triggers a tantrum in a dwarf--e.g. "Urist "ghostly bonecarver has possessed Urist Dwarven lumberjack, lumberjack throwing tantrum".

2.  Ghosts age--infant ghosts become child ghosts (so far no clue if child ghosts become adult ghosts)

3.  Ghosts can acquire coatings--so far sand and water coatings--and only after a cave-in trap went off, I have no experience with magma and can't attempt the trial there.

4.  I have not seen a ghost bother anyone other than my dwarves--animals, goblins etc seem to cause no reaction in either party on encountering one another.

5. Child ghosts rarely injure but often break furniture

6. Ghosts seem to be generated by the world-- I have a ghost in my base who was not part of the original embark, he has no profession (listed as dwarf ghost), and he is apparently the creator of an artifact(when checked with 'v').  What this means is frankly beyond me. He later disappeared so ???

7. A final oddity is the display of ghosts in the "unit" screen.  Benevolent "lingerers" are listed in a row.  Separately from the lingerers, children ghosts are listed together.  So are military ghosts.  So are foreign ghosts.  In between the listings there are random animals, goblin prisoners etc--what causes the self-categorizing still needs to be determined.

8. It is possible to put goblin ghosts to rest, their names appear in the alt+e engrave slab menu, just at the very bottom of the list.  Since I've never seen a goblin ghost despite many, many dead goblins, I have not had a chance to see what this does--perhaps putting them to rest and caving-in the room might stir-up trouble.  Need more time for science.

If the citizens of Spiralchants collect anymore useful data about the dwarven beyond I will be sure to post it here.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 08:51:46 pm by thegoatgod_pan »
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Dariush

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 04:15:18 am »

they seem to open doors--two farm floods and several hallway of freezing doom fatalities later I can testify that the ghosts even open doors which are mechanically wired closed
Heh... the only thing worse than that would be random mining by ghost miners  :P
Awesome information, by the way. It'll be of great help.

Psieye

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2010, 05:15:50 am »

Quote
5. Ghosts can be killed-!!!-my first militia captain, now unfortunately a ghost himself, had a kill listed as "ghostly miner so and so", I did not see the combat log in time and I have no idea how this was accomplished.
I think that's more to do with the kill list simply being a pointer to "that dwarf" instead of a textdump of the dwarf's name and profession. The ghost is the same dwarf but with profession changed to "ghostly <insert job here>". So if your captain killed a miner and then that miner turned ghost, the captain's kill list will simply say "killed ghostly miner". That's the impression I get from noticing something similar in legends mode.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2010, 05:37:39 am »

re; psieye-- Nah the miner was dead before, he was part of the original embark that gave their lives getting through the double aquifier in a frozen zone, he definitely died, became a ghost and and then somehow got killed after battering several times--i think all my military had silver blunt weapons at that point (+picks).

also forgot one more point:

1. Ghosts exhibit several behaviors in relation to place of death/place of burial
-common and expected behaviors include lingering where one has died, and near where one's body is being stored (my hospital/morgue is full of ghosts at all times, as is the aquifier passage which killed an entire embarks worth of miners), however these are hardly the rule--my first "manufactured" ghost was killed in a cave-in trap test that took place on the surface.  His spirit materialized near the second cavern lake (where no dwarf ever stepped foot) and has hung out there ever since [my theory is that's how far the cave-in knocked his spirit from his body]

Other ghosts seem to drift around, food stockpiles are popular, but so is the air around my central tower.

2. While I put down most malevolent (read: organ failure causing/limb severing) ghosts with an engraved slab, i saved a ghostly bonecarver who periodically caused possessions.  I observed a peculiar pattern--while near his death site on the surface (he discovered an ambush) he is perfectly nice and benevolent.  However if he appears in the complex proper--you know he means to cause trouble. All this suggests a more complicated pattern of behavior than just linger and/or attack, further study is necessary...
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Chronas

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2010, 05:42:48 am »

it goes deeper than we first thought? that's awesome and unsettling at the same time
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...
It should be pretty fun though.

Ten_Tacles

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2010, 06:28:22 am »

That is all really interresting and dwarfy.
I want to hear more of this.

FOR !!SCIENCE!!
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Musashi

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 06:37:10 am »

For what's worth, I got a few ghosts lingering for some reason near the water source inside a cavern... and I highly suspect them of pushing intentionally dwarves in the water, as an absurd number of them "slipped" and trained their swimming skill with varied results (a few drowned, resulting in one or more ghosts who got a reason to stay there). Despite the presence of ramps around in almost every direction, they always insisted on climbing back using the ramps several tiles away, risking death by drowning, instead of just walking back up where they fell from... the place where two ghosts permanently linger.
A necromancer fort is an awesome idea, I'll be watching the rest of your experimentation! For !!SCIENCE!! !
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Rose

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2010, 07:03:21 am »

your ghost that had made an artifact, I think I know what happened:

He possessed somebody, and used them to make an artifact.

it makes perfect sense!
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jellsprout

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2010, 07:14:45 am »

2.  Ghosts age--infant ghosts become child ghosts (so far no clue if child ghosts become adult ghosts)

Could this mean ghosts can also die of old age?

2. While I put down most malevolent (read: organ failure causing/limb severing) ghosts with an engraved slab, i saved a ghostly bonecarver who periodically caused possessions.  I observed a peculiar pattern--while near his death site on the surface (he discovered an ambush) he is perfectly nice and benevolent.  However if he appears in the complex proper--you know he means to cause trouble. All this suggests a more complicated pattern of behavior than just linger and/or attack, further study is necessary...

Ghosts can discover ambushes? Now I know where to kill all my useless migrants.
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Dariush

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2010, 07:29:53 am »

ghosts can die of old age
I tried several times to start describing it as 'It's madness!' but everytime midway through I remembered that this is DF.

Herbiie

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2010, 07:43:12 am »

Ghosts can discover ambushes? Now I know where to kill all my useless migrants.

I think he died outside when he discovered an Ambush.
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The once dark-grey walls are now the dark brown of stained blood. At either side of the path leading to the great granite gates is covered with the corpses and skeletons of Goblin invaders.
Some are still fresh. One is still moving.
As you approach the gate a nervous guard looses a bolt in your direction. Silence... Slowly, gradually, the huge doors screech open. Inside there is a courtyard, the floor wet with blood. Welcome to the front-line. Welcome; to Cloisteredwood.

Naz

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2010, 09:44:37 am »

Too bad you can't cage the malevolent ones, take the whole "doberman bomb" concept to a terrifying epic new level. Oh wow...just got a mental image of that last scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
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Fancy Admiral

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2010, 10:57:06 am »

I'm wondering if the materials of weapons matter wrt: can ghosts be attacked/killed.  Silver would seem an appropriate material, as would iron, somewhat.  Of course, hypothesis formed, we need science!

How to arrange the experiment...?   Do stationed Dwarves interact with the ghosts (read: attack the malevolent ones)?  Do ghosts attacking appear as hostiles on the squad attack list?
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Naz

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2010, 11:04:24 am »

might be able to pull it off in arena mode.
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Exiledhero99

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Re: Notes from a Necromancer's tower *spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2010, 03:38:13 pm »

your ghost that had made an artifact, I think I know what happened:

He possessed somebody, and used them to make an artifact.

it makes perfect sense!

This would also suggest that possession moods will only occur with the aid of a ghost, and no longer be a random chance with fey/secretive/fell/etc....can anyone debunk this plz?(in the meanwhile I'll be running a test on this...for !!science!!)
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