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[Mover#005]

Interesting read. Some unsorted toughts about it:

I'll try it tonight I think... but I thought somewhat more about it, when I want to make booze available for my "staff" wouldn't it be that locked away dwarves which are thirsty would try to reach the booze eternally and then die of thirst, even when they're standing right at a well? Or is it that they only go for things that are within possible reach?

I think a own room which is staffed like that would cause too many positive thoughts, which is contraproductive for the challenge, there should be no happy prisoners. And the whole individual cell thing is too modern for my taste. People should simply get thrown in sleeping barracks, maybe parted at sex or profession etc.. I think it would be more like a forced labor camp (which IMO fits more to the dwarven mindset) than a modern day prison. There should be a shortage of beds.

You could also make a dungeon where there is practically no physical connection to the pocket fortress above. Prison staff could just dump food etc. in... (with the typical shortages and collection of assorted spoiled uneatable stuff) doors are lockable with levers, there could be a room where finished goods are brought too regularly, and which is absolutely locked otherwise, to make sure that there is no connection to the world outside. It could also maybe make meeting zones for prisoners and staff parted from each other possible. The Leader should also be a exceptional good record keeper, all in all.. that's his job. Could it happen that dwarves simply elect another? Is this somehow to change?

There should be no economy, it just wouldn't make much sense.

This is all dependent from the pathfinding through... especially from prisoner dwarves not permanently trying to path to the staff fortress above for food, booze etc.

I remember in old 2d versions, where the pathfinding was very pissed off at locked doors and they would cause severe lags and odd pathfinding errors. I know that toady has enhanced that somewhat, but I don't know for certain if it suffices for this challenge.

[Mover#005]

tested it... built a small hole in the ground and locked a dwarf in there, with a channel dug into a aquifer as water hole. stockpiled my booze and the other dwarves right above it. They drank from the booze, he drank from the water. Yay

[Mover#005]

they threw some food down there because he was hungry. Some of it rotted and caused flies. He is very unhappy now but can't do anything about it. Because he has no friends just nobody cares, the other six dwarves are happy and merry as ever.

[ February 09, 2008: Message edited by: Mover#005 ]

[Nesoo]

Just a couple random thoughts:

Consider making any connections between the prisoners and guards "airlock" style (possibly several doors deep) in case a few doors/bridges are knocked out by tantrums.

If it's possible to do so, a barracks made with a wall of wall bars would be awesome:

code:

█████████
█.......█
█...θ...█
█.......█
█‼‼‼‼‼┼‼█

I hope that's the right symbol for wall bars; I've only used them once, and that was several versions ago.

Possibly a spoiler for this one; I didn't make the connection right away:
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M█ak█e lot█s of w█ea█p█ons█ so y█ou'l█l ha█ve mi█li█tar█y dwa█r█ves c█ome i█n th█e im█migr█at█ion █wa█ves █as █the█ "g█uar█ds".
.
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Eh, I hope the blocks aren't too distracting. We need a spoiler tag!

[Solara]

Generating a new world so I can try this out, I just hope constantly locking and unlocking doors won't be too much of an annoyance, dwarves are hard to herd and currently it's hard to properly oppress the masses in any form. (Honestly I'm looking forward to Burrows a lot more than the current Army arc...)

[Fourth Triad]

You should post a video of your fort on the map archive or post a 3d thing of your fort using the 3d mapper tool that someone posted  

[Solara]

Well I've started my prison. It's a bit of a disorganized mess right now but I've just gotten my first group of prisoners in, guarded by a pair of rangers who were also kind enough to serve as an escort to the jeweler and metalsmith we'd hired once we found out the mountain was filled with iron ores and platinum and gems. I'll post some pictures as soon as I finish setting everything up. Not planning anything fancy really so it shouldn't take too long, especially since almost half the dwarves in this batch are serving a sentence of hard labor rather than imprisonment and can handle the grunt work from now on...

[ February 10, 2008: Message edited by: Solara ]

[Javis]

Be sure to put in plenty of doors so that you can keep your prisoners from getting where they are not supposed to go.

[Keizo]

You know, the only thing really unfortunate about this idea is that as more dwarves die, immigration waves will slow down dramatically. In a REAL prison, the number of prisoners would swell catastrophically, no matter how poor the conditions are.

It'd be pretty cool if there was some way you could mod the raws so that immigration goes UP as deaths go up. In a way, everyone -would- want their prisoners sent to the prison with the highest death rate...

[Solara]

quote:Originally posted by Keizo:
<STRONG>You know, the only thing really unfortunate about this idea is that as more dwarves die, immigration waves will slow down dramatically. </STRONG>

Well, I'm not going to be doing any deliberate mass killing and will make an effort to separate violent prisoners from the general population, so the death toll shouldn't get too high too fast. I'm also hoping the enormous amount of goods I'll be offering to the caravan will help even things out...

[Mover#005]

I'm still working on mine, screwed the first one up because of the aquifier (which is unfortunately necessary for water because rivers aren't to usable on freezing maps)

[Puzzlemaker]

The best way to do it would be to have 2 fortresses, one upper fortress and one lower one.

The upper one would have access to walkways that travel around the top of all the lower fortress's rooms.  All the guards should have crossbows, and there should be no way to go from the upper one to the lower one without going through an airlock-type thing.  The guards would patrol the walkways, and the prisoners would be one level below, unable to reach the walkways.

The upper fortress would be your main fortress.  A pop of about maybe 20 at the max.  They would grow their own food and make booze and stuff, and have nice rooms.  The bottom one would have a water supply, and some farms for food.  Prisoners would have all other jobs disabled except for make rock crafts, hauling, and growing food.  Maybe have a kitchen to cook the food too.

Can't decide the best way to get the rock crafts to the upper level easily... I am thinking a bunch of small stockpile rooms with double doors, and when one is filled the door to the prison camp closes and the door to the upper levels opens.  The upper level guys then haul it to the trade depo.

[Mover#005]

quote:Originally posted by Puzzlemaker:
<STRONG>The best way to do it would be to have 2 fortresses, one upper fortress and one lower one.

The upper one would have access to walkways that travel around the top of all the lower fortress's rooms.  All the guards should have crossbows, and there should be no way to go from the upper one to the lower one without going through an airlock-type thing.  The guards would patrol the walkways, and the prisoners would be one level below, unable to reach the walkways.

The upper fortress would be your main fortress.  A pop of about maybe 20 at the max.  They would grow their own food and make booze and stuff, and have nice rooms.  The bottom one would have a water supply, and some farms for food.  Prisoners would have all other jobs disabled except for make rock crafts, hauling, and growing food.  Maybe have a kitchen to cook the food too.

Can't decide the best way to get the rock crafts to the upper level easily... I am thinking a bunch of small stockpile rooms with double doors, and when one is filled the door to the prison camp closes and the door to the upper levels opens.  The upper level guys then haul it to the trade depo.</STRONG>

Exactly that was my idea. It was dependant if or if not dwarves try to track to things they can't reach. But I tested this and they don't. But you'll need an aquifier.