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[cowofdoom78963]

[redacted]

DAMN. That got redacted right as I was quoting you. Lucky Bastard.

[Virex]

Was hoping I could get it redacted before anyone noticed, but I guess I wasn't fast enough. Those anti-impulsiveness talks look rather attractive now.

[AntiAntiMatter]

What creeping death?

[Virex]

As I said I won't discuss it and that's final.

[AntiAntiMatter]

Fair enough.

[Leafsnail]

Can we go back to trying to do the thing that must be done?

[Earthquake Damage]

The thing is that if whatever we do works, we'd better be ironclad in terms of legal stuff.

Speaking of which, it might be prudent to get the Toad's opinion as to whether this forum is an appropriate base of operations, given the possibility of legal shenanigans.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The thing is that if whatever we do works, we'd better be ironclad in terms of legal stuff.

Speaking of which, it might be prudent to get the Toad's opinion as to whether this forum is an appropriate base of operations, given the possibility of legal shenanigans.

If we go by the rules as stated, it isn't. I suggest we wait for him to either approve or deny us working here.

[cowofdoom78963]

I think you should at least consider going there for advice.

[iceball3]

Reading the post links and everything, all i can say is this is fucking obscene. And i am more heavily angered by the fact that in my position, i can do vaguely anything about it.
Though I have an idea that will probably fail in the long run, but is worth a shot. I'm going to begin to spread the word amongst other internet social websites in hopes that at least a few people listen. I believe it could be called a butterfly effect.

[Neonivek]

Well in my case it is mostly that I didn't share my points very well.

As for "Brainwashing", to admit I never take any statement where someone says Brainwashing too seriously in the sense that in the standard use the statement is vague. Actually I just dismiss it altogether. Really Brainwashing in it of itself isn't anything offensive when you take into account that people use it to mean anything (AKA any discussion involving belief systems will have someone mentioning brainwashing). It is the practices that instigate brainwashing that should be the words used.

As for "Everyone is now against Neonivek" no one was really ever on my side as I never spoke from the popular side of the oppinion. I either played Devil's Advocate or Utilitarian viewpoint. Later when everyone just started to go insane I really couldn't keep up with anything that was being said, but I won't touch on that as I am not even sure what I said. Though the offense that I recieved wasn't too unusual, never underestimate the anger you will recieve from dissenting views, for any topic of this type.

I just wanted to sort of break away from saying something is inherantly wrong and understand why it is the way it is.

But I also wanted to seperate the difference between what is acceptable use of tough love practices, something done all the time, and something like this. This didn't get anywhere mostly because it isn't a widely known topic and the school was pretty bad in the first place.

From what I understand from people's reactions the reason this place is "evil" wasn't anything most people could actually describe and what was described were mostly assumptions on the effects of such a place (In otherwords they tried to gather a reason for what was otherwise an obviously evil action). Others took a viewpoint that even though there are benefits, or even if there was, the inhumane treatment of the children was unacceptable in any situation.

As for the solutions this is the part I stopped playing Devil's advocate and started to adopt a more whole picture. The school didn't represent a local problem but more of a systematic one on both that the law system could allow such a place to form and exist otherwise especially with the amount of money it was generating. It also represented a problem with parents and children where they would need such a place such as this.

In my oppinion there is a certain amount of harshness required in order to run a reform school. Certainly no where near this amount. I also think that no matter how much you may hate something you should at least make sure you know if it is actually doing the harm you believe it is. I HATE disinformation! A LOT! There is more to support that the school actually helps these children then there is to say it does quite the opposite and you can distrust the information as well. You can say that the treatment is inhumane and the torment doesn't offset the practices but you cannot make up information that the children are leaving this place mentally unstable.

In fact it was probably my dislike of misinformation that made me ask if it worked in the first place. Does it work? I really do want to know. Does such treatment actually work and what are the implications? It is to me an important question and frankly not one to gloss over even if we want to shut such a place down. Are these children REALLY scared for life? Are they made to think that they were saved or was that something implanted into their heads?

I don't want more filtered information made to make something more evil then it is. Even if it is just sugar frosting on cyanide.


As for something done about it

Honestly Child Reering practices come and go and while some are particularly scary (Lets just say, Child Abuse was an acceptable form of raising your child) to some which were much too soft.

A school like this will probably eventually go away as tastes change, though that is a bit too late IMO.

Besides it isn't like there arn't other tough love ways of getting the same possitive effects without negative concequences. They just need the research to be done. In fact there is probably research done already on reform practices and the outcomes of such.

[Ochita]

So you called us all insane.. Huh... And let me see more... So people can be brainwashed and you dont care. So if people lost their personalitys then you dont mind, okay. You think that.

[Neonivek]

So you called us all insane.. Huh... And let me see more... So people can be brainwashed and you dont care. So if people lost their personalitys then you dont mind, okay. You think that.

I just don't accept anyone using the term "brainwashing" because it is meaningless without context.

As for Insane...

That was a Typo I meant "Everything" not "Everyone" Opps

I'll leave that Typo in, but I HOPE no one quotes it later...

[Neonivek]

No such thing. Abuse is abuse. It's never acceptable.

Tough love is a wide area. It basically means that they arn't soft and supportive but rather they are pushy.

It is often used because many individuals cannot change with simple support. Several Drug Rehap centers function in similar ways.

It doesn't have to be abusive which is the important aspect. Though it will lead to hurt feelings.

These places exist because of the diseases of the people who open them. Real-world social problems have little to do with it

You can't simply ignore the climate. The reason why scum such as this thrive is because they see vulnerability.

There's no evidence for that that doesn't originate from the "school" itself, or some organization of which it's a member

But it is where most of the evidence is.

Read some of their Fornits posts, for example, or the ones on other forums

He describes people that are psychologically disturbed, often deeply and horrifically, but are otherwise functional.

When you try to go deeper and ask how the various practices helped them, you'll get nothing of worth because there's nothing there

You sort of understand the psychological issues as well as how anyone could even be fooled by such a school.

If these kids didn't at LEAST pass off the illusion of wellbeing these schools would be shut down rather quickly. It is important to see the difference between the illusion of stable health and what is otherwise a wellbehaved but deeply disturbed human being so that we have a method of identifying this sort of thing sooner. (Edit: Badly described... The difference between someone who acts healthy and is healthy)

Rather then hearing about it after it has been going on for years.

Though as someone stated they do something to the parents so they cannot report the school (I forget what, Entrapment or something).

[Zrk2]

acceptable use of tough love practices

No such thing. Abuse is abuse. It's never acceptable.

Wrong, spanking a child to re-enfirce what they have done is wrong is perfectly acceptable and effective when used properly.

If you were being cruel you would send them to pick the switch you use on them. That is true psychological terror.
/sarcasm?