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[Fellhuhn]

But running around with weapons made from glass is so much elf. That is wrong.

[Xenos]

But running around with weapons made from glass is so much elf. That is wrong.

Shooting your enemies with bolts that will shatter upon impacting bone and send shards of razor sharp material splintering and slicing through their tissue is so much dorf though.  That is the most right.

[Fellhuhn]

But running around with weapons made from glass is so much elf. That is wrong.

Shooting your enemies with bolts that will shatter upon impacting bone and send shards of razor sharp material splintering and slicing through their tissue is so much dorf though.  That is the most right.

Use a catapult with that. And as ammo use an elf filled with gun powder who is wrapped with shrapnel. More dorf like.

[alpha]

an elf filled with

This sounds so wrong 

[tsen]

If you read the article about the skywalk, it specifies that it will use a bunch of steel. Saying something is "stronger" is generally a sign that you haven't actually looked at the real-world materials properties. Glass has a very low "toughness"--it's a refractory material, and pressure will cause it to break. Modern plate glass *is* quite strong, relatively speaking, but it isn't tough like steel and has different properties.

I'm not a materials scientist so I can't be all that specific, but basically the framework would be build out of steel and individual segments connected to the framework can be glass. Back to the main point:  No, you can't make arrows out of glass (or stone for that matter) If you do, the kinetic energy going into the arrow will probably snap the shaft and you'll get a nice armful/faceful of those razor sharp glass/stone bits you were talking about.  The shaft of an arrow has to be able to absorb the energy without breaking, which is why we use wood or carbon fiber arrows. Damaged arrows are immediately removed from use to prevent injuries, and they're made out of materials that work for the job, so using something so unsuitable is guaranteed to get someone hurt, and it's more than likely going to be the archer.

That being said, I'd love to be able to make glass arrowheads or stone arrowheads for increased damage. 

[magistrate101]

This thread became a massive TL;DR for me, so i am just gonna say what i thought when i read the title... MORROWIND FTW

[Axecleaver]

Saying something is "stronger" is generally a sign that you haven't actually looked at the real-world materials properties. Glass has a very low "toughness"--it's a refractory material, and pressure will cause it to break. Modern plate glass *is* quite strong, relatively speaking, but it isn't tough like steel and has different properties.

I did say it was stronger... compartively speaking. It makes me wonder if you missed the context in which I said that (emphasis added here):

Pound for pound, modern quality glass is stronger than steel.

I'm saying it's stronger by weight. More specifically, with two pieces of equal mass, some types of glass can have more tensile strength than steel. I was feeling too lazy to look up a reference, but there are sources which say as much. And there are a lot of different types of glass, with new varieties still being formulated.

As you said, glass has different properties from steel and there are different methods by which to gauge strength or toughness. Glass is obviously inferior in terms of impact testing, maleability, and ductility. Depending on how tempered, glass does have a small amount of spring. But it usually can't bend very far unless we're talking about hair-like fibers. Then again, consider THESE articles:

bensozia > Super Glass

TFOT > On Wings of Glass

Thanks to scientists at the University of Bristol, it may become possible to build airplanes with wings of glass.

No, you can't make arrows out of glass (or stone for that matter) If you do, the kinetic energy going into the arrow will probably snap the shaft and you'll get a nice armful/faceful of those razor sharp glass/stone bits you were talking about.

If they're shaped like an ordinary arrow, with a narrow shaft, you're probably right. But I was primarily thinking of two different applications: A crossbow bolt and the tip of an arrow. At least we agree that glass would make for a good arrow tip. But I would also say glass would work just fine for crossbow bolts, considering bolts (esp. ancient types) are shorter and broader than arrows. Consider these authentic medieval crossbow bolts with forged tips. Also, consider this modern quarrel, or bolt (see photo at top of page, or here). But then, since neither of us have tried making glass bolts or arrows (nor find a reference to someone who has), I guess we can't say for certain.

Damaged arrows are immediately removed from use to prevent injuries...

Of course. But as I said, a glass bolt (or arrow) would only have to hold together for one shot. In DF, bolts and arrows are lost after one shot, whether they hit or not.

...so i am just gonna say what i thought when i read the title... MORROWIND FTW

This topic reminded me of The Elder Scrolls as well. I was going to post the following, but it did not seem relevant enough. But since you brought it up:

I am reminded of how ebony is considered a material superior to even mithril and adamantium in The Elder Scrolls series of games. Ebony is shiny, black and described as a very special type of volcanic glass and it's easy to see the correlation to obsidian. In the TES universe about the only materials superior to ebony are orcish (yes, made by orcs) and the ultra-rare daedric (made by the minions of daedric princes, or gods). Morrowind also introduced green glass armor, though it's not entirely made of glass and the material is considered inferior to ebony.

[tsen]

Ok good, was just worried that you thought it was literally in all ways superior to steel, which was confusing. What I meant specifically is that those properties which make steel good for use in weapons are lacking in glass. As a thin strand, the tensile strength of modern glass is indeed higher, but it needs to be able to resist large amounts of force twice in succession to work, once for firing then again on impact. (Assuming the target is armored)

Those bolts are thicker, but I still doubt they'd hold together well enough to be safe or do damage hitting metal armor. The shafts are about as big around, or slightly larger than the wooden arrows I use firing a 70 pound recurve... It would be one of those things where impurities and precision crafting would make all the difference, I think. If you cast them in molten glass with areas at the top and bottom for impurities to settle out in then broke them off, it might work... Hrm. I'll have to do some more research.

Even then they'd probably shatter against mail or plate. Assuming it didn't explode on firing, it would probably do a number on someone in leather though, if it hit them right. Of course, I'm assuming 1400s level technology--with modern tools, custom crafted glass bolts would probably have a much higher chance of working.

[Axecleaver]

Of course, I'm assuming 1400s level technology--with modern tools, custom crafted glass bolts would probably have a much higher chance of working.

Yes, the quality and properties of the glass would be of paramount importance in such an application. But then (esp. considering the broad applications with which they apply materials such as stone), I get the impression that dwarves would be much more concerned about the strength and durability of their green glass than it's optical clarity. Dwarves do seem to be rather innovative and technologically advanced for a Medieval society. And I wonder if there could be a fair amount of impurities in the type of sand they'd choose to use. (Considering dwarven knowledge of how to make magma furnaces and player's overwhelming preference to build near magma pipes, perhaps the geology around preferred sites tend to lend itself toward the creation of a synthetic volcanic glass?)

Impurities often cause problems in various manufacturing industries and glass is no exception. But I think certain types of impurities could be beneficial. Assuming their glass furnace gets hot enough (big if here), I'm wondering if some sand could have a high enough metal ore content to create a glass-metal composite, which has superior strength and impact resistance to ordinary clear glass. (See the mention of glass-metal in the On Wings of Glass article.) I'm not sure of the properties of a glass-metal, but I suspect it could be similar to that of a Cermet, a well-researched ceramic-metal composite in use for over half a century.

Side note: The wikipedia article also mentioned that the US Army & British Army were researching cermets toward "the development of lightweight ceramic projectile proof armor for soldiers and also Chobham armor."

Edit: My thoughts about cermets got me curious about how ceramics differ from glass. Interestingly, while glass has high tensile strength and an amorphous structure, ceramics usually have high compression strength and a crystaline structure. (Although, technically, glass is considered a "non-crystalline" form of ceramic.) Then I found a reference to Glass-Ceramic composites:

Glass-ceramics are mostly produced in two steps: First, a glass is formed by a glass manufacturing process. The glass is cooled down and is then reheated in a second step. In this heat treatment the glass partly crystallizes.

The wikipedia article also mentioned:

Glass-ceramics usually have between 30% [m/m]and 90% [m/m] crystallinity...

If all it requires is an extra reheating step, glass-ceramic doesn't sound too difficult to manufacture. This has me wondering if a glass-ceramic-metal hybrid is possible and the mechanical properties it would have...

[tsen]

Fascinating reading!