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Author Topic: Glass Crossbow Bolts  (Read 5986 times)

alpha

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Glass Crossbow Bolts
« on: November 26, 2010, 01:24:32 pm »

To me glass seems like a perfect crossbow ammo material and I would like my fortresses to have that.

How do I mod in glass bolts production?
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 01:25:46 pm »

just make a reaction... you can find out how on the wiki.
btw, glass is a HORRIBLE material for anything designed to kill.
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MiniMacker

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2010, 04:20:11 pm »

just make a reaction... you can find out how on the wiki.
btw, glass is a HORRIBLE material for anything designed to kill.
It's strange that obsidian can't be made into bolts. Since they are sharp even at molecular levels. (In fact, many surgeons today use obsidian in their scalpels.)

Edit : I AM on topic, obsidian = volcanic glass.
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jaked122

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 05:17:58 pm »

though, they shaft of the arrow is either wood, or unusably thick.

TomiTapio

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 07:52:41 pm »

From my suggestion, Deon put stone tip + wooden shaft bolts into Genesis mod, stone age tech, for better "bulk ammo" bolts so don't waste precious armor-making metals. I had fun shooting up all the wildlife.

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Lancensis

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 08:26:17 am »

I always liked the idea of hollow obsidian-tipped bolts filled with acid that would shatter when they hit bone. I don't think they'd actually work particularly well in practice because the tip would shatter in the wrong direction and the blood would dilute the acid, but they'd be an amusing novelty.
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nordak

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2010, 09:24:50 am »

Blood diluting acid? You need more acid in those bolts, the blood should spread the acid and cause massive hemorrhaging.  Increase concentration, think acidic salt, the salt is dangerous when dissolved in say the targets blood.
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Lancensis

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2010, 09:38:09 am »

Yeah actually, salts of an acid would be awesome. I'd thought of Hydrogen Fluoride, but that didn't sound very practical. Be pretty good against rapidly regenerating creatures, I guess.
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The Scout

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2010, 10:26:06 am »

Yeah actually, salts of an acid would be awesome. I'd thought of Hydrogen Fluoride, but that didn't sound very practical. Be pretty good against rapidly regenerating creatures, I guess.
Use something like the alien's acid. (Xenomorph)
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Axecleaver

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 01:27:06 pm »

From my suggestion, Deon put stone tip + wooden shaft bolts into Genesis mod, stone age tech, for better "bulk ammo" bolts so don't waste precious armor-making metals. I had fun shooting up all the wildlife.
That sounds pretty cool. However, to be more realistic, I'd think one would have to be somewhat picky about the type of stone used. For instance, I'd think some types of stone are too brittle or too difficult to carve into a nice sharp arrowhead. (See the Wikipedia article for more.) Some rocks such as chalk, talc, and sandstone can fall apart easily.

Stone arrowheads were primarily made from flint, obsidian, and cherts (similar to flint). But, quartz, onyx, granite, and possibly others were used, too. From what I've read, the sharp edges were usually made by applying pressure to the stone edge until part of the stone flaked off. This works well enough with stones like flint and obsidian. But not all types of stone chips in that way.

That said, from this article about ancient super concrete, the Ancient Romans and perhaps the Ancient Egyptians knew how to make a much superior (to modern) concrete. Not that there's any evidence that they did, but I'm thinking they could (perhaps) have used it to make stone weapons or cement smaller stone pieces together for such. (Both civilizations had access to metal, which was much superior to stone weapons.)

As for glass in arrows and bolts, I'd say it would probably work OK for the tip. Pound for pound, modern quality glass is stronger than steel. In fact, glass can be used as the primary material in a bridge. See The Glass Bridge (Grand Canyon Skywalk) for an example. (I've also read an article in Popular Mechanics that discussed a proposal to build a giant suspended bridge from glass but, alas, I couldn't get Google to turn up much about that.)

Of course, the problem with glass is that it is brittle. That means that, sooner or later, a bladed glass weapon used in battle is going to either shatter or get chipped and loose it's edge. But for arrows and bolts, it's not as big a deal because you'd probably only use them once or twice anyway. If the tip breaks inside your target, so much the better.
I always liked the idea of hollow obsidian-tipped bolts filled with acid that would shatter when they hit bone. I don't think they'd actually work particularly well in practice because the tip would shatter in the wrong direction and the blood would dilute the acid, but they'd be an amusing novelty.
I think acid is highly overrated as a weapon. It just takes way too long to do the deed. That said, even native peoples and ancient civilizations knew about poisons. Some types of naturally found poisons are quite deadly and fast acting.
Blood diluting acid? You need more acid in those bolts, the blood should spread the acid and cause massive hemorrhaging.  Increase concentration, think acidic salt, the salt is dangerous when dissolved in say the targets blood.
If the ancient world knew about anti-coagulants, I suppose that stuff might be coated on a bladed or piercing weapon to cause the target to bleed to death. I know leeches and some types of insects and bats use anti-coagulants. Perhaps there are some plants from which a powerful version can be derived? Then again, a strong poison is still probably faster acting.
Yeah actually, salts of an acid would be awesome. I'd thought of Hydrogen Fluoride, but that didn't sound very practical. Be pretty good against rapidly regenerating creatures, I guess.
I assume we're still theorizing about weapons in Dwarf Fortress? How could the ancient world possibly know about a super-modern chemical? (Nevermind how the Nazi's used Fluoride to keep concentration camp prisoners docile.)
Use something like the alien's acid. (Xenomorph)
I assume you're proposing that some Dwarf Forge creature has a natural acid like the xenomorph blood in Aliens? And that the dwarfs can somehow harvest it to use in their weapons? Perhaps. But that's too fantastic and too sci-fi for my taste. (That's mixing genres.) No acid in real life is anywhere near as strong or fast acting as "Cosmic Acid."
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 01:33:03 pm by bsperan »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 03:15:15 pm »



That said, from this article about ancient super concrete, the Ancient Romans and perhaps the Ancient Egyptians knew how to make a much superior (to modern) concrete. Not that there's any evidence that they did, but I'm thinking they could (perhaps) have used it to make stone weapons or cement smaller stone pieces together for such. (Both civilizations had access to metal, which was much superior to stone weapons.)





I recall reading somewhere that Roman concrete was made using some relatively scarce resource (volcano ash, I think). Once they ran out of that, Roman concrete disappeared. I'm no construction materials expert, though.
PD:  it wasn't stronger, just as strong. It wasn't strictly speaking "lost", either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete#History
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 03:18:02 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Axecleaver

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 04:42:50 pm »

PD:  it wasn't stronger, just as strong. It wasn't strictly speaking "lost", either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete#History
First of all, as often as I use and reference Wikipedia myself, it is widely known that the accuracy and validity of content there can be questionable sometimes. (It is a wiki, after all, and most anybody can contribute "facts" and articles.)

Actually, I did not claim it was lost. (The method has been rediscovered in modern times.) Nor did I claim (in the above) that it was "stronger". ("Super concrete" is one name commonly given to it. Google it.) I merely claimed it was "superior" and by that I mean (from what I've read) it lasts a lot longer than modern concrete available commercially. Ordinary concrete structures begin to decay over time to the point that they become weak or damaged after several decades. (This is fact. Ask a building engineer.) In contrast, some of the concrete structures built by ancient man are still standing strong. An example given was how the Ancient Pantheon in Rome, at over 2000 years old, is still the "largest unreinforced concrete dome in the world." Also, I find the reasoning believable that concrete companies are not in a rush to adopt this superior, rediscovered concrete due to their interest in the bottom line only.

Finally, from what the article says (and other articles like it) and the fact that the Ancient Pantheon was not reinforced with steel, I'm tempted to say that it may actually be stronger than modern concrete (if both in a comparison are without steel reinforcement). Also, reports that the U.S. military wants to use it to build missile-proof underground bunkers should speak volumes: Popular Science > Ancient Secrets of Super-Cement May Lead to a Shield Against Bunker Busters

Reese

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2010, 04:51:59 pm »

But the question is, would it be possible to make it so the glass ammo shatters after it penetrates(or, at least, if it embeds) and leaves a chunk of sharp glass inside the victim that causes further harm until removed?

Probably not, but it would be pretty cool. (Thinking of the glass sword from the Ultima series- breaks after one hit, but does INSANE damage to whatever you hit with it!)
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veok

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2010, 08:09:33 pm »

just make a reaction... you can find out how on the wiki.
btw, glass is a HORRIBLE material for anything designed to kill.

This is only true most of the time. You see, Glass has some of its material values undefined. This means that each time you load up dwarf fortress, you spin the glass lottery wheel, and whatever value happens to be in the register at the time gets drafted as the MAX EDGE value for that session (and some others, I'm simplifying).

For this reason, it is not recommended to make danger rooms with glass weapons -- they work for seasons upon seasons, but one day, glass decides it wants to be three times sharper than obsidian, and the next thing you know you've got a military of quadraplegics.
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alpha

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Re: Glass Crossbow Bolts
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 03:12:48 am »

Pound for pound, modern quality glass is stronger than steel.
This.
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